- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
- cross-posted to:
- memes@sopuli.xyz
cross-posted from: https://slrpnk.net/post/15795315
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When lemmy.ml answer detected:
I like to get them going. I respond with “that’s BS” or “prove it” and they give me a essay
More energy efficient GPT?
Non-tankies on .ML getting upset at this:
You might not be an idiot, but you’re wearing a T-shirt that says “I AM AN IDIOT” in bold letters across your chest. Maybe change your shirt. 🤷🏻♂️
i’ve created this alt in the interim of finding a more permanent instance residence. Just got exhausted by the massive amount of shit they peddled over there.
Lemmy.sdf.org is a good one with a “very light touch” attitude towards defederating instances of what you’re interested in
Sh.itjust.works is also a good one with great admins I’ve heard (and also funny name)
I hear a lot a spam comes from shi.itjust.works
I’ve seen people say this, but haven’t actually seen it outside of one asshat who picked a fight with Beehaw a year+ ago.
As a user I’ve had a pretty great experience personally.
I’ve just heard from other mods that it can be a source of problems
Could be the case of a vocal minority. The biggest complaints I have scene is that the instance admins allow whatever
TODO: pedal vs peddle.
I bet there’s not a gratuitous amount of bicycling going on over in .ml land, but I could be mistaken.
fixed from ‘pedalled’ to ‘peddled’. I’ve met a decent number of Marxist cyclists, so i could believe it.
Could be, I’m no expert on cycling.
Come to .nz! Our admin has the best track record on trans rights out of any instance drag is aware of.
dbzer0 is chill if you like the more corner posting type shit, as well as some piracy related shit.
to better analogize this, you’re hanging around a nazi rally trying to find friends, and people keep calling you a nazi for some reason.
Weird.
As a Lemmy user I don’t care for this
I feel like Lemmy has the reputation of being Tankie
average lemming experience really.
It’s a metaphor since tankies don’t seem to exist or make a difference in real life
They’d have to go outside to do that.
It literally does though. I stopped telling people that I use Lemmy as a result. When some instance defederates from ML and establishes itself as being solid, I’d love to tell people irl that I use that.
If you are trying to say not to paint people with too broad of a brush, I get it, but also, we don’t get to choose how others think of us, only what we will do in response.
There are a few tankies on other instances. The difference is that they get in trouble when they act out.
I don’t have an issue with lemmy.ml users but that’s because I don’t use sweeping generalizations. I’ve had perfectly acceptable conversations with people across all kinds of instances.
I’m not a tankie but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
I like socialism too. But I hate bootlicking authoritarian simps who pretend like they know shit about socialism because they read that one Lenin essay on Marxist.org
The problem is that folks see these things implemented in the past and say “let’s just do that.” Why can’t we take the good parts and think beyond the rest? These are systems that just won’t work with current population growth and resources. We can always do far and away better than capitalism, but I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
Any time a path opens to seize power, humans fill that void regardless of what they believe in. Now suddenly we’ve traded authoritarian 1 for authoritarian 2. It makes no sense to me and I read both Lenin and Marx.
It’s not even an issue of population. Communism requires material conditions you simply cannot create by killing the opposition, no matter how much you desire to preserve “the revolution.”
Capitalism is but one manifestation of material and labor scarcity. Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another. Until those things are eliminated the only option available is harm reduction. Revolutionary communism fails specifically because it fails to recognize itself as a particularly shitty form of harm reduction, insisting the entire concept is bourgeoise propaganda. This is what contemporary leftist theorists have come understand, and what obnoxious internet edgelords refuse to acknowledge, because it requires admitting that Stalin and Mao didn’t get it right.
Ironically this is literally the foundation of Dengism and modern China, which MLs say they like, until you reduce it to first principles, at which point it once again becomes bourgeoise propaganda.
Until those things are eliminated you will experience the exact same ills in one form or another.
Under capitalism, stores throw perfectly good food in a padlocked bin while people starve. Investors speculate on empty properties while people die of exposure. Capitalism creates scarcity so that it can sell people the solution.
It’s 2024, our technologies for agriculture, medicine, engineering, and education are amazing. In terms of the basic necessities of life, we are already a post scarcity civilisation. What we’re lacking is a post scarcity economy to match it.
We can always do far and away better than capitalism
i think the real ticket, for global economics, especially ones that are going to be sustainable is going to be some sort of pseudo capitalist society. Especially one with a free market. Free market decentralization is a hard target to beat.
There’s room for a lot of interesting study here, i’m not sure any exists, and i’ve yet to see any unfortunately, it’s mostly just people dickwagging around trying to do the le socialism thing, which is funny, i guess.
I’ve talked to a handful of working class people that lived under communism for years and they have nothing good to say about it. Not a single positive thing. It’s easy to dream about these things and wax poetic when you don’t experience them firsthand.
You should talk to some Australians instead. Australia’s communist nations have been stripped of their land, so most australians alive today don’t have much direct experience with communism, but the modern descendants of Australian communists all have good things to say about the way it was done 300 years ago what with the stateless, classless, moneyless gift economy.
My former officemate grew up in Russia in the 80s, he hated a shitload about growing up in the Soviet Union. He raved consistently about two things: the education system and gender equality.
His mother was a mathematician and computer programmer, and he didn’t have issues with school there until after he’d been here (the US) as an exchange student and had some… Cultural differences with his teachers.
“People who smile a lot in Russia are considered to be unintelligent”
All of these spaces are permeated with foreign actors. Not all users, but I know a percentage of the users statistically have to be across all the large instances. I’m in tech and we’ve seen fake users appear in public Slack and Discord channels, try to schedule job interviews (it’s happened before), etc. The forces these governments have in tech behind the scenes is enormous, and there is no way to truly know who is and isn’t a state actor on the web.
We need more critical thinking. More separation of person from ideas. People get too hung up on figures.
Except on .ml that “critical thinking” you’re talking about is western anti Bolshevik propaganda to them and you’ll be banned.
That’s the problem with .ml, you just get banned.
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That’s why I think they’re astroturfers. I mean how else are you going to deter people from a political idea without being completely insufferable?
The communism is a facade for their propaganda, and it also bolsters extremist discourse. Win-win for them.
It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
Sure, whatever. That’s what happened on X. The normal people are leaving and the Nazis are stuck in their hate bubble with no normal people to talk to. Let’s do that.
Posts like that encourage extremism. It pushes the lemmy.ml users who are normal out while angering and reinforcing the identity of the ones who are extreme.
if your community becomes more toxic when people leave it because other communities call it toxic…maybe its actually toxic.
IMO if I was running an instance it would have already defederated from ml instances.
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I’m not even a .ml user and posts like these are pushing me to switch to their instance lol.
Sounds like you might like anarchism
I do have some anarchist tendencies.
we do a little bit of dbzer0ing
Nothing about a dictatorship is public ownership.
*ism is just a tool for any aspiring autocrat. Stalin would have been far-right if he saw it as being a valid pathway towards power.
Effective tyrants are forever pragmatic and never burdened by ideological loyalty.
Yes that’s why I stated Stalin, Putin, and the CCP are ideologically opposed to socialism/communism. People who enjoy socialist concepts should be opposed to Lemmy.ml, not see common grounds with them.
Hey, I was you about 6 months ago. Same views, and then I was called a dirty imperialist just because I wasn’t left enough. Like, these ML people are out for blood. They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
The CCP nad Putin cucks aren’t even leftists, like at all. ML and Hexbear supported Donald Trump because he is anti-NATO.
They want a revolution and it’s acceptable if people have to die to achieve it.
Yeah that’s how revolutions work. Because the alternative, at least in theory, is more people dying of poverty, environmental pollution, institutionalized oppression, and other consequences of the current global economic system.
I hate when leftists punch down on other leftists. It’s not a competition!
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but am a fan of parts of communism and I like socialism.
Probably why you don’t have issues with Lemmy.ml users.
Im the same, I like socialism and the theory of communism is nice.
I don’t like .ml users because they hardcore believe and spread the bastardized authoritarianism-based CCP/Russian propaganda version of communism.
Right. They’re opposed to socialism and what the hold up as communism is actually Fascism with a heavy dose of State Capitalism.
What you’re looking for is anarchism. Aka libertarian socialism.
Anarchism is a political philosophy and movement that is against all forms of authority and seeks to abolish the institutions it claims maintain unnecessary coercion and hierarchy, typically including the state and capitalism.
Um. No. I rather enjoy having a government, just a government that isn’t corrupted by the rich and actually takes care of its people like it’s supposed to. That inherently necessitates it having authority.
That’s not what the theory of communism aims for, but you do you.
Edit: to go in a bit more details, anarchism doesn’t deny all authority, just authority gained by and used for coercion. A doctor would still have authority to recommend treatments, since they are more knowledgeable, for example. So that uncorrupted and caring government you want is simply a form of anarchism
Either you’re thinking of something else or you should go update Wikipedia then, because that’s where I got that description from.
That description does not contradict my words. It says about abolishing coercion and hierarchy, not authority
Edit: I re-read your reply. Yes, the part about being “against all forms of authority” is not entirely accurate, but the second part is true nonetheless. I suppose you could rephrase my example with the doctor and call it an “expertise” instead of authority, but the concept of it is people would still defer to specialists in specific fields that have more knowledge and experience than them.
As I’m new to the anarchism myself and do not wish to misrepresent its values, I think this this site might give you a better in-depth look
i like to think of anarchism as the educated brother to the miscarried libertarian-ism.
It’s harsh, but i’ve never seen a libertarian make a good point, or understand anything remotely relevant to government, so.
I think anarchy, by the very nature of it’s existence is more suited to handle the challenges presented by no government existing, notably, a new government being created. Because anarchy is most often following a government collapse, and followed by a new government being created.
It’s important to distinguish anarchy and anomie. The latter is the government collapse you mentioned, accompanied with lawlessness and lack of morals, while the former is simply lack of central overseeing authority (archism), for one reason or another.
The long term goal of anarchism is not destroying all governmental structures in one fell swoop, but rather gradually building communities based on liberty, solidarity and mutual help that don’t require hierarchy or coercion to function.
Then those communities naturally take over governmental functions like protecting the people, the central government dissolves when it is no longer needed and the process doesn’t harm anyone. No “new government” is created nor is necessary.
In terms of relationship between anarchism and libertarianism, I like to think of anarchists as a subset of libertarianists (since we all oppose authoritarianism fundamentally). I’ll admit I’m not as familiar with other libertarian ideologies.
You can still appreciate Karl Marx’s Manifesto without endorsing the Soviet Union or China.
Sure, in the same way I appreciate Kant or Kierkegaard or any other modernist - as foundational thinkers who laid the groundwork for more contemporary ideas. The entire issue is that so many internet leftists take Marx as dogma, and are often poor students of philosophy outside of that very narrow context, yet will lecture you about how you only disagree with them because you haven’t read enough year one polisci material. ML spaces are as dunning Kruger as the internet gets.
worth .003$ vs a hexbear user
Like comparing the Ruble to the North Korean Won LMAO
Pffft North Korea ain’t Won shit! (Sorry I see a pun I make a pun.)
This is even less than a Schrutebuck.
oh I’d rather have a schrutebuck 100%
All tankie users are in .ml, but not all .ml users are tankies.
You should always judge the merit of the comment, not whether or not the person is from .ml. If you see a comment that is pro-CCP or pro-Kremlin from an .ml user, then the point of the meme is valid. But a well-thought, benign, good-faith or wholesome comment from an .ml user should not be dismissed.
Not everyone in a nazi bar is a nazi. Let’s hear them out and give them the benefit of the doubt even though they could go to literally any bar, but keep going to the nazi bar
When choosing an instance, it is not necessarily overtly advertised as such. It’s just one of the largest instances, so many “regular” people are obviously going to pick it. New users are not going to be intimately familiar with the elaborate politics of federated Lemmy servers upon first arrival. It would be a bit bizarre to expect them to be.
That’s why I am working to stopped supporting lemmyml. I have created a few new communities already. I don’t want to mod to much so it would be nice if some other people followed suite.
Yeah it seems a lot of the bigger communities from Lemmy.ml have seen alternatives grow in popularity on different instances now.
Makes sense given the current Lemmyml admins
Sure, and anyone can walk into a nazi bar. But with threads like this being fairly common, and ML people behaving as they do, you have every chance to realise pretty quickly and leave
Hell, ML people are bad enough that I imagine a lot of sane people leave lemmy entirely, if they pick an instance that hasn’t defederated ML yet. I’m looking at alternatives myself as getting associated with these types of people isn’t a great idea, and the lemmy developers are part of the problem
No doubt many have tried the fediverse and walked away because of Lemmy.ml/hexbear.
I don’t even admit that I use it as is because of the propaganda. I’m still hopeful for the future but my enthusiasm is dying.
Same, I can’t recommend lemmy to friends or coworkers because of this. Mastodon is much better at this
Maybe I’ll switch to Mastadon. I find myself going back to Reddit as often as using Lemmy these days, so maybe it’s time.
I suspect everyone switching won’t solve the problem. Seems unavoidable that open-access, anonymous social media will be a target for propaganda any time it becomes popular. If everyone leaves for Mastadon, the shills and their LLMs will move over there.
I mean I just never ended up subscribing to political communities, so I never see any political related things anyway. If you only subscribe to meme and lighthearted communities, you’re not likely to run into that stuff. Your comparison of it being a “Nazi bar” doesn’t work. I’ve never been someone who browsed the “all” category of Reddit, and I’ve not been inclined to do that here on Lemmy, either. So no, you often won’t see that sort of thing unless you’re browsing by all communities.
Well, you’d need to pay a very specific amount of attention to not notice the tankies from ML, but really notice and be bothered but people shunning ML because of the tankies. I guess it’s possible, but it seems unlikely to be common
Well now you’re not making any sense. I don’t see “tankie” comments because I don’t subscribe to or browse political communities. Yet I see plenty of posts and complaints about said users in non-political communities. Check where we are right now. We’re in a meme community. Of course if I subscribe to meme communities, I’ll see posts and comments like this. It’s not that complicated to understand.
I see plenty of ML people being awful in meme communities. I’m amazed you don’t. Any even remotely political meme will attract them, or at least would back when they were out in force supporting Trump leading up to the election.
And that is even though I’ve blocked ML and have a hair trigger for blocking .ml accounts
I used to be on ml when I first joined lemmy because I did know better, now I love my instance.
Except the pro-Russians won’t say they’re pro-Russians.
A lot of Russian propaganda is just sowing FUD.
Here’s a tangentially related comic, as I just read the latter bit of your comment in that tone, (not saying you’re guilty of the same things.)
Basically, because being directly pro-Russia is so see-through, a lot of bad actors merely sow FUD. For one check Davel@lemmy.ml if you want an example. A very polite person who lists links and sources (firehose of falsehood is also a soviet strategy btw).
Dude pretends to be American, talks American politics, but always in line with Russian propaganda, while saying things like “reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias” and absolutely refusing to address whether he is pro-Russian or not, despite very clearly having talking points which show he is strongly pro-Russian.
So either he’s an American who fucking loves Soviet culture and larps being Russian, is actively against Ukraine and believes Russia was eight to invade it, so the least patriotic American to ever exist.
OR… (and I believe this to be a tad more likely) he’s actually a lying Russian.
But Russians aren’t known for disinformation and lies, right? Right…?
Yes, of course you are right. But for those less experienced on discourse, there is the principle of charity. It is important to give the benefit of the doubt that the interlocutor is acting in good faith. But when you exhaust all the good-faith and sensible arguments, and that person resorts to either providing irrational points or acting unreasonably and/or disingenuously, then it is completely safe to assume that the person is actually a bad-faith actor. It’s on that person, not on you.
But you should not readily accuse someone a troll unless you could calmly point out why the person is such and such. Trolls exactly want you to do that.
Haven’t i seen you cast these types of accusations before…?
Pure AD HOM. Instead of addressing a single part of my argument, you’re instantly pointing a finger at my person, but you’re so easy that I don’t mind engaging.
“Accusations” like quoting his own comments?
He claims to be American. He says “reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias.” He won’t answer the question “are you pro-Russian”.
Those aren’t opinions. Those are facts you can verify yourself.
Fervently and actively trying to say Russian propaganda doesn’t exist, definitely not on Lemmy, while refusing to answer whether he’s pro-Russian or not. Just what kind of American would you have to be to support Russia and be against Ukraine while actively promoting Russian propaganda? Please, do reason that out for me. Thanks.
I’m not debating you bud, relax.
Pretty much my entire experience with your account is dealing with you accusing me of being a russian operative, even linking me into threads across instances in threads I had no involvement in.
I’m just pointing out the pattern here, though I’m grateful you’ve moved on to another target now.
edit because @Desus@lemmy.world got himself banned on my instance:
I’ve repeatedly stated that I’m not russian nor pro-russian - but that’s the point. There is no way of addressing this accusation thoroughly enough to satisfy the accuser, which is why nearly every community/instance has a rule against it. Nevermind the hopelessness of trying to categorize/typify every anonymous user along some nationalist line of personal significance.
Confusing analysis for justification is a common enough mistake, but it’s an even more common bad-faith way of dismissing materialist analysis entirely. Following various users around to make those accusations is simply a way to force disengagement onto others and potentially solidify reactionary impulses against communism/socialism more broadly.
Oh yes, “another target”.
You felt threatened, because I asked you if you were pro-Russian. Took you a while to respond, btw. And did you even give a yes or no answer? I fail to recall you saying you’re not pro-Russian. And I’ve never accused you of being a “Russian operative”, lol. Spreading Russian propaganda doesn’t even require that you are a Russian. But Davel is claiming to be American, while being intensely pro-Russian and due to the interactions someone dug in the modlog last time, we also know there’s an actual organised effort with them. I still haven’t said that organised effort is actually some paid “operatives”.
You read too much into things. Improve your reading comprehension and maybe you won’t feel so easily threatened by simple questions like “are you pro-Russian” when you use a username like “archomrade” and constantly post things consistent with Russian propaganda. Perhaps you just don’t realise it?
Thanks for your efforts fighting disinformation. Seriously.
Why thank you. I appreciate that. Honestly, more than you’d guess.
They edited their post about four hours after you wrote yours, I suspect to try and discredit your points, because in their post they claim to have repeatedly told you they they’re neither Russian nor pro-Russia, but my skeptical antennae are twitching.
Also, their justification for editing their post is that you’re banned on their instance, which I don’t buy as a reason to edit rather than reply. You’re not banned on world and neither are they.
They edited their post about four hours after you wrote yours, I suspect to try and discredit your points, because in their post they claim to have repeatedly told you they they’re neither Russian nor pro-Russia
Oh yeah I remember that guy. He says he answered the question, but he never did. I thought there was something I wasn’t really recalling. But yeah. Then I kept asking “if you already answered it, why can’t you answer again, it’s a simple yes or no question”, but he just refuses to answer.
Now this might be me imagining things, but these accounts lie about literally anything, but they can’t say “no, I’m not pro-Russian”, because they know how insane Russia is and no matter how unimportant you are, if you actually say you are against the government, even as a clear joke, you might be in danger of falling out of a window.
No yeah they just quit replying once they realise they’re going on a bit too long while absolutely refusing to answer such a simple question. It’s not even “are you Russian”. It’s whether they support the current Russian policies. Anyone who can’t say they’re against Russia literally breaking international law can go fuck themselves. Hear that, @archomrade@midwest.social ?
Chill out there is nothing to get upset about.
Come to think of it, how do I know you aren’t Russian? In truth, how do any of us know we aren’t Russian?
If they absolutely refuse to answer “are you pro-Russian”, while actively spreading Russian propaganda, that might be a tip as to what they support.
I’m against Russia. I’ve been militarily trained to protect my country from Russia, and I’m willing to do it should the fuckers open up a second front here. However seeing how they’re having to pour orcs into the meatgrinder at such a rate that their equipment is getting older and older, we’d end up facing enemies with WWII gear while we’re outfitted with the latest gear.
Plus, we didn’t let them through the last time either.
Haven’t worn this in a while, prolly would have to shave down to a buzzcut for it to fit. But I’m not gonna paste an image of my military pass. Not because I’m afraid I’ll dox myself or anything, but because it was in my storage and a drunken bum fell asleep in the next storage over while smoking cigarettes and burned down the whole storage room with everyone’s storage spaces. Thanks for reminding me though, I need a new one.
Jokes aside, it’s not about whether someone is Russian or not. It’s about whether someone is pro current Russian policies. I mean I’d argue that actual Russian patriots would fight Putin in any reasonable way. And this probably excludes open armed rebellion, but like, just generally, oppose him. People don’t dare to though, as they tend to fall out of windows. I’m not opposed to Russia. I’m opposed to what Russia currently is.
@Dasus@lemmy.world
I literally cannot see anything you’ve posted after you were banned - an instance ban prevents any of your activity from federating. It isn’t that I ‘stop responding’, that possibility has simply been taken away from me because Dasus can’t resist russia-jacketing anyone who disagrees with them. I can only see your comments if I visit the post from any other instance url. Call it unhealthy curiosity, I figured you’d be shadowboxing in my absence.
I do not support Russia and Putin is a piece of shit - feel free to send a screenshot to the kremlin if it makes you feel better. The US isn’t getting involved out of benevolence, though, and Ukraine would be fucked by IMF and US aid conditions for the next century even if they were successful in repelling the russian invasion. But my material analysis about that conflict isn’t even at issue here, instead it’s your insistence that any analysis that involves Russia at all be sufficiently critical, else the speaker be condemned as a pro-russian stooge. It doesn’t mean I think that russian capitalism is preferable, it’s just an acknowledgement that it’s western capitalism that has historically -and is currently- obstructing the development of working-class solidarity across the globe, and exchanging Ukrainian (and russian) lives for its expansion is a shit deal to put it mildly.
No war but class war.
Well I’m sorry I made you write all that, but I do really appreciate you writing “Putin is a piece of shit”, no matter how childish or crazy I may seem to you.
Also, I don’t remember whether in the earlier chat we had some day you actually said that as well. You very well may have, I remember someone saying that at some point, but my short term memory fucking sucks nowadays. But Davel definitely has never answered me.
I don’t see how you could say that any capitalism is favourable to another brand of capitalism. Well, except for perhaps saying that Western capitalism is definitely favourable to capitalism with Asian values, which is essentially capitalism deprived of individual freedom and monopolised by the state, ie authoritarian capitalism taking advantage of Western markets. Watch the video, Slavoj Zizek really has a bette handle on economical philosophy than I do.
There is a lot of war beside class war. Mainly, people doing actual war in places with war. Like Ukraine. Now you could never imagine that a European country (yes Russia is technically one too but let’s ignore that for a while) would actually manage to organise an invasion of another European country with soldiers who don’t even know they’re going to invade another country. “Special Military Operation”. Imagine, idk, Germany pulling that on France? Sure, 100 years ago. But today? You just wouldn’t be able to do that. 100 years ago the populace was still less educated and easier to manipulate. Much like much of Russia’s population and pretty much all of North Korea’s. If those were educated westerners, they’d have never bought into the propaganda of their respective nations and they couldn’t have organised such military efforts.
Is there shitty western propaganda? Yes. Do western countries have a lot of fault and some even actively warmonger? Yes. But is our active worry Western countries? No. (Well, aside from the US because of Trump.) Is our main worry really Russia at the moment? I think so, yeah.
I don’t see how you could say that any capitalism is favourable to another brand of capitalism. Well, except for perhaps saying that Western capitalism is definitely favourable to capitalism with Asian values, which is essentially capitalism deprived of individual freedom and monopolised by the state, ie authoritarian capitalism taking advantage of Western markets
I don’t view one type of capitalism as more favorable than another, but I do recognize the particular dominance and imperialistic qualities of western capitalism. In fact, I see the the current global conflicts in a similar lens to Zizek when he says:
[the existing western democratic capitalist] “system has lost its self-evidence, its automatic legitimacy, and now the field is open.”
The legitimacy of western democratic capitalism is (rightfully) losing credibility, and I even think it’s currently collapsing. I don’t share Zizek’s skepticism of… “Chinese-Singaporean capitalism with Asian values”. He has had some questionable takes on racial/national identities in the past - it’s been a while since I trusted his geopolitical cultural analysis. At the very least I think the ‘Socialism/Capitalism with Chinese characteristics’ has yet to play itself out, whereas there’s about a dozen examples of western imperialist intervention ending in absolute squalor for the working class wherever they’ve been active.
The point is that from a purely ML perspective, there’s nothing to be gained by dragging that conflict out. The working class will be in no better material conditions under either outcome, even if we freely acknowledge their occupation and annexation is both immoral and illegal. So long as western democratic capitalism retains its global significance, there can’t be socialism without a vanguard party to defend against western capitalistic subversion, at least not one that lasts.
There is a lot of war beside class war. Mainly, people doing actual war in places with war. Like Ukraine.
“No war but class war” isn’t a statement about the existence of war other than class war lol.
“system has lost its self-evidence, its automatic legitimacy, and now the field is open.”
I don’t disagree with this. And it’s actually nice to get into nuance with someone. The point is that I have a genuine reason to worry about Russia and Russian propaganda — basically everyone has but if they make more of move on Europe, Imma be 30km from the frontlines, and with the current drone technology, I don’t like my chances in what I’m doing, which is not something I’m gonna reveal here just in case there actually is a war. (My war time posting, that is.)
The legitimacy of western democratic capitalism is (rightfully) losing credibility
Sure, yeah, but you do realise what you sound like when you make statements like that? I’ll gladly discuss how fucked up Western politics are when I know I’m not talking to someone straight up worshipping Russia.
For one, I’ve already explained how I will defend Finland and Europe if it comes down to it, but how people just overhype Finland. “Happiest country in the world”? What fucking garbage. One of the most miserable countries in the world, when it comes to general enjoyment of life. Perhaps one of the safest countries in the world, sure, where you’ll usually have your basic needs met and won’t have to resort to violence or crime, but… “happiest”? Not even fucking close.
It’s not about racial or etchnic takes when Zizek talks about ‘capitalism with Asian values’. Essentially he’s remarking that a lot of Asian countries are pretty authoritarian, but know that they need to rely on making bank, which is why they successffully employ capitalism, but impose some authoritarian features on the people owning the companies doing the trade. Not exactly monopolising trade, which would mean no capitalism, but basically… monopolising the people doing capitalism… so… it’s not gonna “play itself out”. How would China starve itself of people and business, while being so resource rich? Even with super heavy regulation and authoritarianism, they could go all the way down to NK level and still have… a population. So you know… you won’t be seeing “the end of” anything like that…
“No war but class war” isn’t a statement about the existence of war other than class war lol.
Yes but you can also see how quotes can be interpreted in several ways, yes? And the importance of actual war goes above class war, no matter how I’d like to kick up a revolution and start building barricades.
It’s hectic. We can’t use hectic. I want to rage and break things and yell at morons. But unfortunately that’s just never worked and annoying as it is, we have to compromise with morons.
The point is that I have a genuine reason to worry about Russia and Russian propaganda — basically everyone has but if they make more of move on Europe, Imma be 30km from the frontlines, and with the current drone technology, I don’t like my chances in what I’m doing
I’m sorry you’re in that situation, genuinely. I don’t want to be one of those guys that confidently speculates about the future of geopolitical conflict, but Russia benefits a lot more from reactionary isolationists getting voted in throughout the western world and weakening resolve for joint sanction than they do with open conflict with Europe. They wouldn’t be able to march into Finland or Poland without NATO taking action, and they certainly do not want to get into open conflict with NATO - that’s half the reason they’re in Ukraine to begin with.
Sure, yeah, but you do realise what you sound like when you make statements like that? I’ll gladly discuss how fucked up Western politics are when I know I’m not talking to someone straight up worshipping Russia.
And i’d gladly discuss it when I know i’m talking to someone who understands that it isn’t just western ‘politics’, it is a matter of the internal contradictions within democratic capitalism itself. It’s not a matter of western nations ‘deciding’ not to be jackasses, they need to materially separate themselves from the needs of capital itself, and we’ll sooner sink to fascism than achieve that spontaneously.
Essentially he’s remarking that a lot of Asian countries are pretty authoritarian, but know that they need to rely on making bank, which is why they successffully employ capitalism, but impose some authoritarian features on the people owning the companies doing the trade. Not exactly monopolising trade, which would mean no capitalism, but basically… monopolising the people doing capitalism… so… it’s not gonna “play itself out”. How would China starve itself of people and business, while being so resource rich? Even with super heavy regulation and authoritarianism, they could go all the way down to NK level and still have… a population. So you know… you won’t be seeing “the end of” anything like that…
Err, yea… That is basically the only reason they’ve been as successful as a communist nation to begin with. I understand people’s apprehension to include China as a communist or socialist nation state given the idealistic non-violent vision that’s romanticized in the west, but the way in which they’ve enacted their “socialism with Chinese characteristics” is still consistent with a marxist vision of a ‘dictatorship of the proletariat’. I guess we’ll see if/how that system would be implemented in a hypothetical communist/socialist western world, but so far their system has been significantly less violent than even the most charitable characterizations of western democratic capitalism. That’s why I don’t share Zizek’s fear of Chinese authoritarianism taking over in the west - not just because I think the west has greatly exaggerated it to great effect, but also they’ve been downright benevolent with their partner states in comparison to western democratic capitalist states. I think it’s naive to think a western implementation would be the same (but holy shit is that an insane hypothetical given where we currently are)
And the importance of actual war goes above class war, no matter how I’d like to kick up a revolution and start building barricades.
Funnily enough, that is the opposite of what that phrase means - but I can see we’re about to reach the limit on what we agree on so I’ll leave it at that.
The admins of ml are tankies and so are a lot of the communities there. The non tankie users are moving away from that instance which increases the tankie concentration.
I think what you are meaning to say is that many tankies can behave like normal people. To take your comment farther, tankies can be anywhere but you will most likely see them coming from I stances like ml and hexbear or fresh accounts on other instances.
Based 👌❤️
I am .NL not .ML please don’t hate on me dyslexic lemmys
“Corporate needs you to tell the difference between these pictures”
deleted by creator
You can’t change where or how you’re born, but you can change what instance you’re on with almost no impact to yourself. Maybe spend ten, fifteen minutes on copying your subscriptions over manually. It’s like changing out of a T-shirt with really unfortunate text you couldn’t read before putting it on, one of the greatest benefits of federation.
Settings -> Import/Export Settings -> Export
Then on new instance, repeat with Import.
Also handles your block lists.
Enjoy:-).
Boohoo
“I really wish people would stop judging me for being part of the ‘Pro-Genocide Club’, I’M not pro-genocide!”
Votes for a little bit of genocide, as a treat
Doesn’t vote, gets a lot of genocide instead
“I really wish people would stop judging me for being part of the ‘Pro-Genocide Club’, I’M not pro-genocide!”
- Claim to be anti-genocide,
- Act in a way that increase genocide,
- Accuse others of being pro-genocide,
- Revel in moral superiority
chef’s kiss
Now you’re getting it. A genuine moment of self reflection on Lemmy.
1 claims to be anti-genocide.
2 votes for a pro-genocide party.
3 “war is peace” any vote for non-genocide is actually a vote for pro-genocide Orwellian nonsense.
4 posits purity test they cant pass themselves.
You summarised them perfectly.
Indeed! The actual consequences of (in)actions are unimportant so long as claimed intentions are pure…
I mean: Isn’t that part of the whole federation thingy?
Developer: makes platform
End User: “Fuck you.”
Tale as old as time.
But unlike Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, and Larry Page, the good folks at .ml did nothing wrong.
Genocide apologia is ‘nothing wrong’ to you, I see. Unsurprising.
It’s UnderpantsWeevil, our very own local .world tankie
I have never seen .ml people engage in genocide apologia. They’re fond of authoritarian governments which I find distasteful, but they aren’t pro-genocide.
Go ask about the Uyghurs in China over there and get back to me
A while back they were calling for the total destruction of France
Ask them about the Uyghur genocide or the ongoing genocide of Ukrainians or the Holodomor or the deportation of the Crimean Tatars or etc etc etc etc
Drag has seen many .mls say “Democrats are Republicans are exactly the same.”
The difference between Harris 2024 vs Trump 2024 is one genocide vs three. That’s millions of lives.
Drag has seen many .mls deny the loss of millions of Palestinian, Ukrainian, and transgender lives to push their agenda.
Genocide denial is wrong.
Stop with the sensationalism
As a resident of a politically indifferent instance that is on good terms with everyone, I can say one thing:
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred, and newbies coming there doesn’t change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever’s coming here, and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the “wrong” instance is the worst possible greeting.
I have no problems with tankies expressing there opinions. The problem is when someone points out they are wrong they get mad and if the mods are tankie they ban you. If not they just get mad and start name calling.
In a nutshell I think they should be allowed as long as they follow the rules. Same for everyone else.
Yeah, from my pov, it’s not about silencing their opinions as much as it is wanting to avoid their authority because they abuse it to push their opinions.
Same reason I ultimately left Reddit. Admins were making choices I didn’t like and forcing them on their users. The new site and official app both suck, but I had the option of using other apps or the old site. Even the old site isn’t a great experience on mobile vs some 3rd party apps, but then they killed off the apps in a way that looked like they weren’t being honest about (though in hindsight it was more about wanting to price access for AI training than specifically wanting to kill the 3rd party apps imo).
Lemmy isn’t immune from any of that, but the impact isn’t as high because federation gives options. And corruption turns into more of a game of whack a mole instead of “throw lots of money at the one entity controlling it” like Reddit and Twitter.
Fuck absolutely everyone who turns Lemmy into yet another Internet battlefield.
This is what the tankies do, would you rather have them just run roughshod all over Lemmy spreading hostile country authoritarian propaganda?
Leave .ml alone. Leave Hexbear alone. Even yes - leave Lemmygrad alone. People there will not change their opinion when facing hatred
Not about changing Tankie opinions, they’re too far gone, this is about pushing back on the spread of authoritarian BS.
and newbies coming there doesn’t change the big picture, as Lemmy is federated and they can figure stuff out for themselves.
“Don’t tell the new comers to town about the Nazis at the Nazi bar, let them figure it out for themselves so they have a negative experience and leave”
Trying to silence entire instances, especially the biggest ones, is absolutely not a welcoming picture to whoever’s coming here
If they’re (admins and mods) going to allow a toxic culture on their instance, then it doesn’t matter their size. Toxic Tankies is not a good look at all.
and being cut out and filtered for happening to choose the “wrong” instance is the worst possible greeting.
The worst possible greeting, is seeing Tankie shit takes with paragraphs of “Russia/China did nothing wrong” and everyone going “We let them post their stuff because we don’t want to hurt their fefes”
Don’t you know that defending against authoritarians is the real authoritarianism? Just look at how Ukraine is visiously provoking russia to invade by checks notes defending themselves during the invasion
Well said, I completely agree.
lol look at the downvotes on this one… these tankies coordinate themselves against opinions that they don’t like. it’s ridiculously obvious.
Right. Everyone disagreeing with you is just an “other” that doesn’t belong to your group that should be rightfully ignored because they are lesser than you.
Oh happy day the liberals sure are superior to the rest of us and we would all know our place to respect that.
Just so you know I down voted you too. And hey look. No tankie or .ml
.ml participate in bad faith in conversations of course there are some normal downvotes but that technique has been used in the past. Since I have been tagging the worst offenders I have found their behaviour in terms of commenting/posting to be dogmatic. They rarely participate in non political themes and if they do some of them still spread their ideology. I don’t want explain too much… I understand that you disagree with me but since I have been investigating on my own I have been really surprised at how bad the problem was.
And what?
Holy crap that’s the least “human I wish to spend any time with” ever response. This is what you are spending your time on? Oh my God.
I’m sorry I came across in the wrong manner.
I didn’t intend for my response to sound passive aggressive or that your opinion did not matter (English is not my first language after all).
To clarify my previous position, I just want to say that I don’t disregard .ml opinions based on the origin of their instance. I was just trying to point out that a lot of problematic behaviour comes from some individuals on .ml.
That being said I just want Lemmy to succeed in general and when I see their behaviour, it pains me because I know the damage it does to lemmy as a whole. I noticed I take toxicity waaaaay more personally here rather than on reddit because It’s just corporate shit anyway.
You are right though I could be spending my time doing better things rather than waisting it calling out pro-genocide/genocide deniers/authoritarians who paint themselves as "socialists/communists”
In their defence posts like these, especially in this community, serves no other purpose rather than to stir things up and get a reaction.
Yeah this post was a shit stirrer for people to get an easy hit of emotional payoff.
I also want this place to succeed but people spending every day lamenting the way that other people are living doesn’t make this place feel inviting. And there will always be idiots and people being bad about something or another.
I hope you find yourself doing stuff you enjoy or makes the world better instead of just hunting down all the ways for it to make you feel worse.
I’ll bash them too when I see them doing so. So long, it’s mostly them (or really, everyone leftier than liberals bunched along with actual tankies) that are under fire.
Your war made too much collateral damage, that’s what I’m saying. Newbies come to .ml and other popular instances, and are attacked on the spot for being presumably almost Nazis. Others come and see this mess.
You are so concerned about someone making China/Russia look better that you are ready to overlook everything else.
You are so concerned about someone making China/Russia look better that you are ready to overlook everything else.
Of course, genocide is such a small thing compared to people feeling uncomfortable.
I made the mistake of not knowing I was on an .ml community and disagreed with a post using, y’know, facts, and was downvoted to shit because my reply didn’t jive with the room’s echo chamber. I don’t know what you mean by “leave(ing) them alone” when their brand of hate and bullshittery bleeds into the “All” feed. We’re supposed to welcome that? Paradox of tolerance and all that. If someone joins one of those instances I kinda find it hard to believe that they wouldn’t check out and stick with what they’re attracted to in the first place.
Plenty of us tried that. We weren’t the ones that turned it into a political Battlefield. I didn’t start out blocking their communities and servers. I’m a pragmatist. Actually largely against people who are blindly ideological regardless of the ideology. Even if I tend to personally identify with the anarchist Spectrum.
Hell lemmygrad and hexbear weren’t banned because of their politics. They were banned because of their behavior. Anyone who behaved like so many of them did should have been banned regardless of politics. Lemmy.world was de-federated by certain servers for far far less.
And if you want to exist in a bubble. Then by all means please do. But don’t admonish other people for not doing so. Ignoring politics and being ignorant of politics is in large part how so many of the problems we have today were created. People left alone at the levers of power who should never have had any business. All because people were content and ignorant.
So if there was a instance called “obviously a bunch of Nazis” and we’re all openly Nazis. You would be fine with that? Or am I missing the point?
My instance has communities dedicated to this shit.
Some of your more vocal voices in this crusade against .ml tend to be pretty active in drone kill footage communities.
Having someone who actively supports Israeli operations in Gaza browbeat others about comments on Uyghurs is just a context to get used to.
It gets pretty easy to ignore once you see a full cycle of it.
The zionists here, too? I used reddit for over a decade and left because of how awful zionists barrage reddit into a propogandist cesspit. And yes screw anyone who makes lemmy a battleground like reddit
Lemmy is generally leaning pro-Palestine, but it varies.
love me a classic .ml worthless posting, it’s my favorite.
- Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
- Why don’t you just block the instance
Edit: thank you for real responses, got so used to be people getting pissed for no reason on social media that I was genuinely surprised to check Lemmy and see a bunch of genuine answers with no butthurt to be seen
Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
The admins and mods cultivate a community of genocide denial and authoritarian apologism, which many users on the instance then buy into.
Why don’t you just block the instance
Instance blocking only blocks communities, not users, who still show up whenever there’s a Chinese genocide to deny or a Russian atrocity to “WHATABOUT”, or a non-Western aligned dictator to “BOTHSIDES”.
My current favorite is Taliban-simping.
When I accidentally blocked an instance, any comment from a user on that instance would be replaced by a message like “you have blocked this instance and so will not see this comment.” I don’t know if that’s a feature of my client, Connect, or of lemmy itself.
Should be your client.
Damn I’m jealous of your client! That’s a new feature to me!
Enjoy! At least if you’re on Android. I don’t know if an iOS version exists.
You are forgetting the strong hatred for France.
The ml in lemmy ml means marxism-leninism, it’s maintained by the lemmy devs so it has lots of “normal” users too. Some people associate lemmy.ml with “tankie” viewpoints.
Lemmy devs are tankies, especially the main maintainer
At least they’re more level headed than Nutomic is.
Nutonic is literally a transphobe who is on record as saying that trans rights are western degeneracy
I wonder what Blahaj thinks of him
I wouldn’t have a problem with if it wasn’t for the mods
The ml stands for Mali, which is the country the instance domain is registered to. The Marxist-Leninist connection is a happy coincidence for them.
The ml in lemmy ml means marxism-leninism
It means Mali and was chosen because it was cheap/free
You’re both right!
It is Mali’s domain, and Marxist-Leninists choose that domain to work out of because of the initialism.
Kinda like why BIOT’s domain is so popular with the tech folks.
And Tuvalu’s domain is popular with streaming sites
chosen because it was cheap
Um nah, there are a LOT of cheap ass TLDs, hell even .com TLDs are only $10-20 a YEAR
It might not actually mean marxism-leninism (then again, who the hell knows, we have .zip TLDs now ffs), but it sure does to the .ml admins
Back 3y ago the users claimed it did mean marxist-leninist (or rather if we must be pedantic, that the TLD does mean Mali but they chose it because it meant marxist-leninist to them.) They stopped around the time of the exodus (read: they put on a mask to trap unsuspecting redditors) and they’ve ramped back up since everyone defederated hex and grad (my guess, those users created .ml alts specifically to proselytize to the unwilling like Evangelical roaches once their supply to feed their victim complex dried up.)
History for posterity’s sake.
I choose not to block the instance because there is a very small group on there that have non-political discussions that I enjoy, same with hexbear.
I also don’t like creating an echo chamber where all I hear is what I want to hear. Hearing from the other side, as disgusting as their viewpoints can be, at least let’s me know how they think.
I don’t agree with their tankie views, but it does force me to see other views. However I usually just eyeroll and move on.
If I see racism or hate though that’s an immediate block.
Agreed, if it’s targeted like that, you get a block.
the other side
Kremlin propaganda isn’t the other side
Yet propaganda is what has the US where we are today. If you understand the propaganda, you can help push back.
Yes, like pushing back against lemmy.ml
Why does everyone have beef with lemmy.ml
Extending an invitation to peruse !meanwhileongrad@sh.itjust.works for some context of mod behavior
The mods of that community are communists. They seem to mod in good faith but keep that in mind.
- Lots of toxicity and bad takes.
- It isn’t literally the entire instance.
It isn’t literally the entire instance.
Maybe not, but when the admins and mods are part of the problem, it becomes pervasive.
In my experience it is pretty much the entire instance. All the sane people moved to other places.
Yeah, Hexbear is the worst. I would say exploding heads, but they’re gone now.
Their mods behave like Russian commissars. Their users go along with it.
In my experience, the mods on lemmy.ml are particularly biased. Like it’s okay to joke about American school shootings but not about abortions biased. But after a while I just stopped posting there. (I barely post to lemmy at all now, but that’s another story.)
I’m pretty sure making jokes about shootings is worse that jokes about abortions.
Honestly they are both inappropriate
Reasonable people can disagree about the rules, the point is the mods are inconsistent.
(But seriously, do you really want to say one is worse than the other?)
fedia.io doesn’t support blocking, unfortunately 😭
Your comment has been removed for including carnist hate words. We don’t use words that glorify murder like the “b” word.
Huh
They’re making a shitty “HAHA VEGANS DUMB” joke like it’s 2010.
Nah, one of my kids are vegetarian and I cook to support them. I have no issues with vegans. I see how it came across that way though.
I suspect you must have missed the .ml vegan community drama a couple months ago. Take every bad stereotype about vegans and ramp it to 11. Everything was in bad faith. It bled into a couple different communities.
Ah makes sense, gotta put the /s when making references like that
deleted by creator
That would have been better in hindsight.
Ohhhhh I actually did miss that completely, my bad.
Tbf, guess what the comms I got banned from are, and guess why? Vegan subs, “carnist propaganda.”
I’m just saying, don’t make a post bemoaning “why do people hate vegans” and then ban the guy saying “because they often behave like evangelical christians.” I got kicked out of church for much the same reason, ironically.
Lemmy has a very different community than Reddit - here, people are often outright kind.
In part that’s a large reason for the beef with Lemmy.ml, e.g. recently a mod there removed comments for a user over a misunderstanding in a game, and in the process said that they (the MOD!) wanted to shoot them (the OP), doubling down and even tripping down to say “I hope you die soon”. (Described in more detail here.)
It is ironic that one of the very first Lemmy instances, and also being the one whose admins are also the developers of the Lemmy sourcecode, is so much less like the rest of the people on Lemmy, and more like Reddit. But it is what it is.
I was on ml and it was pretty chill for a non-tankie. Until a mod powertripped and ban me for insulting an homophobe. Some people like me join the instance without knowing of all this tankie thing. IMO, hexbear is far more toxic.
IMO, hexbear is far more toxic.
That’s not an opinion, it’s a fact. .ml is mostly OK 75% of the times. Hexbear is a cesspool always
Hexbear has some users with strong Linux and tech knowledge. That’s why I still haven’t blocked the instance.
Why tho? I’m having trouble figuring out the differences in instances
The lemmy.ml instance is known to have admins, mods and users that spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
You get banned for stating things like “Russia invaded Ukraine”
When I first got lemmy, I think I signed up to .ml but after a while I couldn’t log in so I made a .world acc
Ah yeah. Good old fashioned social media toxicity.
Mixed with some old good internal left fighting.
The taste of success. Surely.
internal left fighting.
I’m talking to people on Lemmy.ml who say things like “Reality has a well known Russian propaganda bias”, “Russia was right to invade Ukraine, it needs to be denazified”, “Uighur genocide is made up”, etc, etc etc, I wouldn’t call that “internal left fighting”
Doesn’t mean all .ml users are like that.
What happens here is an attack on a wide group based on a very arbitrary characteristic.
It’s not that we’re judging all .ml users. It’s just that any .ml user can be a potential tankie who will defend Putin to his grave, like the admins and mods.
This is reflected in the content on the instance, and what sort of things you’re allowed to post there. Which does influence people using said instance, even if very slightly, and unnoticeably.
I don’t actually agree with the meme, but the humour stems from the fact that it could be true insofar that it’s pretty often that you’ll find shameless tankies wanting to suck Putler off and destroy “western imperialists”.
So I do take comments at their own value, no matter the instance you’re from. But lemmy.ml is almost as shit as lemmygrad.ml
It’s not arbitrary, it’s a picked identity which shares some common features.
In which things is someone allowed to think differently from the US Democratic party before they are expelled from the left?
And fuck Putin, btw. But there are people with widely diverse points of view on an incredibly amount of matters, that can have common grounds on many other issues. And, at least for me, they’ll need to try harder that just being putin’s useful idiots to be expelled from my definition of what the “left” is.
Especially on a matter as complex as Ukraine war. That I gladly support arming and helping Ukraine, and my country will keep arming and helping Ukraine when USA steps back once Trump sits in the office. But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine. Others may support Russia on this. But as long as we both agree on other issues I won’t deny that. If they support end of capitalism, workers rights, LGBT rights or gender equality we would have common ground on those topics.
But I still understand that is a complex issue and that different points of view are expected. I have mine, which is support for Ukraine.
Russia invaded Ukraine. That’s a war of aggression. Russia is wrong in this. Don’t pretend like it’s a “complex issue” and “we need to listen to both sides”.
No, we don’t. Russia is the aggressor, they’re in the wrong, they need to fuck off from Ukraine and Putin be held responsible in a court of international law. There’s no ifs ands or buts about it.
“We could have common ground…”
Yeah I don’t need to have any common ground with people who actively lie, spread disinformation, undermine legitimate information, deny international crimes, deny genocides, spread values of authoritarian nations.
I don’t even identify with any left-right division but I’m definitely not what you’d call an “enlightened centrist”, because that’s a garbage position for garbage people who are afraid of any sort of confrontation.
About a bit less than a hundred years ago there were discussion like “we need to appease this Hitler fellow, seems awfully mad” “maybe if we don’t protest over him taking the Sudetenland, he’ll calm down?”
Would you be intellectually arguing the merits of Hitler’s invasion of Sudetenland as “a complex issue, you have to consider both sides”?
No. Fuck that. Take a stance.
I have a stance. I did say I support Ukraine. Same I say I’m clearly leftist.
But you don’t need to stop being able to think just because you support a side. You can support a side and still understand the complexity of the issue, and that you are supporting the lesser evil.
I still support Ukraine on this. Mostly because Russia initiated hostilities, and because I think the European Union is a better place to live than Russia. We protect people’s rights better. But it’s a complex issue because there are people in some Ukrainian regions that does not want to be Ukrainian anymore, and that does not want to be forced to move away from Russian influence. And this is clearly a proxy war between two empires.
I have my stance, but I’m not blinded by it.
I don’t need to think “all opinions are equal” to be “able to think”. I don’t need to accept Russians saying they’ve done nothing wrong and to “consider it from their point of view.” Russia broke international law.
It’s not a complex issue.
Oh yeah the old “no there’s definitely people who actually want to be Russians in the parts of Ukraine Russia invaded illegally so they should probably maybe be able to keep those illegally invaded areas.” No. Is there documentation of, say, Ukrainian people voting in Russian elections? That might imply they consider themselves Russians, right? Yes, there is documentation of that.
Occupied Ukraine encouraged to vote in Russian election by armed men
Stop being an apologist to Russia.
Do you understand that by calling me Russian apologists, when I’ve said several times that I support Ukraine, is just making my point?
You see enemies even in your allies.
If we are naming moustached men I remember some paranoid mustache men that also thought everyone was his enemy. How did that feel? Ah?
Last paragraph is just a joke, I don’t actually think you are a stalinist just because you are so radical in your views, but you get me.
You can say you support Ukraine, and still be apologist for Russia. Those aren’t mutually exclusive.
“You are so radical in your views.”
You’re literally an apologist for Russian authoritarianism. You’re spreading the propaganda that occupied Ukrainians actually want to be Russians. That is bullshit that Russia has been spreading for years. It’s not controversial either. You just keep yourself ignorant, and probably didn’t even click on the link I pasted, and definitely didn’t read it. And you have the nerve to talk to me about the “ability to think”?
“Our citizens are very afraid. Of course if Russians with soldiers come to their flat and ask if they’d like to vote for Putin, everyone will say: OK, yes. Because everyone wants to save their life. But it does not mean that our citizens want to support Putin.”
One resident of the Kherson region - the south-eastern part which is occupied by Russian forces - described to the BBC how voting was organised in his village.
We are unable to disclose his name or location due to security concerns.
“Pro-Russian locals visit households with ballot boxes, accompanied by armed military men. If they knock and no one opens, they move on to the next house. They don’t break into houses, but they do visit,” the local resident said.
They added: "This is ridiculous. What kind of election is it when there are two locals - one holding a list of voters and the other a ballot box - and a military man with a machine gun? This isn’t democracy. It’s a comedy show."
Here’s more.
Ukraine war: Russia claims win in occupied Ukraine ‘sham’ referendums
News agencies run by the pro-Kremlin administrations in Donetsk and Luhansk are reporting that up to 99.23% of people voted in favour of joining Russia - a high percentage that would be unusual in a vote of this nature.
Like you can’t… or won’t call bullshit on things like ^ that?
You supposedly being “for Ukraine” doesn’t really matter when you’re touting Russian propaganda, consciously or not.
Does “be civil” include constantly shitting on huge groups of users just because of the instance they created their account on? There’s a very simple solution for this if you truly believe an entire instance is worthless and it’s called the blocking function, but I suppose that’d stop the joy you get out of loudly complaining about that instance repeatedly.
a) Huge groups of users well known to spread the promotion, praise and propaganda of dictatorships and other authoritarian governments, bigotry, racism and transphobia. Even when there are hard facts against them.
b) The Lemmy blocking function isn’t anywhere as good as you think it is. Maybe even by design, the main admin on .ml is also the lead dev of Lemmy after all.
-
I actually didn’t make this meme, I cross posted it from someone else on !memes@sopuli.xyz
-
It’s not like it’s a minority of users on .ml doing it that the admins/mods just haven’t brought the ban hammer down on. The admins are part of the problem along with mods cultivate the toxic tankie culture that gets shit on. It’s the non-tankie .ml users who are in the minority, they should have chosen a better crowd to hang with.
-
yeah uh, that’s the joke. That’s the obviously implication of the joke here.
That’s like saying that “all murderers are bad” and then me going “well hey don’t you think is a little bit broad of a generalization? And unfair to people who were unfairly charged, or perhaps in inconvenient but justified circumstances?”
You could make the meme say “lemmy.ml tankies running free posting tankie bullshit” but that doesn’t roll as well as “lemmy.ml doing tankie things because lemmy.ml seems to have no problem with tankies existing”
You could make the meme say “lemmy.ml tankies running free posting tankie bullshit” but that doesn’t roll as well as “lemmy.ml doing tankie things because lemmy.ml seems to have no problem with tankies existing”
It did neither of those things though, so that’s irrelevant. It just says it’s a comment.
i assume “be civil” just means that you can’t call people “dipshit asshole dumbass idiot” and things akin to that, i.e needless name calling, calling out perceived problems as long as done civilly, or being rude, but in a civil discussed manner, is i think fair game.
i.e. i could call this a stupid post because it covers what should be clearly demonstrated by common moderation history, i.e. these kinds of threads stay around for a while, these kinds of comments tend to stick around, and that’s generally good enough reason to keep moderating as you are, precedent is a very strong thing.
but i couldn’t just call you a dumbass because you should know this, and therefore you must be the most uneducated person in the history of humanity. Because that’s not civil.
It’s a meme sub, chill out.
