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If you are from the US and you criticized people living under authoritarian regimes for not rioting hard enough, this is your time.
You still have it easy. You won’t be taken into prison for standing with a piece of blank paper. You won’t be beaten with batons and taken into custody for reciting Constitution. Yet. Go ahead before it gets there, and may you never see a true authoritarian horror.
Otherwise, all your words are not worth a dime.
The left couldn’t be bothered to vote but you think they’re going to riot?
It would have maybe been mobilizing if the election was closer, or if the Dems at least won the popular vote by 5 million again… but this defeat was thorough enough to absolutely crush the morale of anyone who leans even a little bit left. Why should I waste my time and money supporting progressive policies when some people won’t even do the bare minimum to prevent Republicans from establishing a stranglehold on our government and institutions?
If the accelerationists thought that sitting out and handing the election to Trump was going to mobilize the left I’m afraid they’re going to be disappointed. You say there’s still time, but is there? I used to think the “Trump is a fascist” rhetoric was hyperbole until J6 happened, now the proof is on video. Just engaging with these posts on a leftist site could be getting me onto a McCarthy-style blacklist that would prevent me from getting a job.
There’s also a chance that the DNC still won’t get the message and we will do it all again in 2026, 2028, and so on. I guess beatings will continue until morale improves.
Riots always start with vocal minority and get more and more people engaged.
America is not lost, and has plenty of people ready to take it on the streets. They just need a push. And having others around fighting for their future is the kind of push that can wake such people up. It’s way easier to join rather than start.
What would rioting do though besides serve as an excuse to ram in fascism
If it’s not gonna happen, more fascist measures will be introduced - without people’s hesitation outside Internet comments.
A solid organized riot does change the course even for most authoritarian governments, even if they happen to suppress it eventually. Politicians should feel that their position is not as solid as they would like.
But the further people prefer to not intervene, the more entrenched authoritarians become and more draconian measures are implemented. As such, the government is strongly interested in making people think rioting doesn’t help. This is part of many authoritarians’ playbooks.
It will do nothing, and I personally don’t think it should be done. But as a thought experiment it shows that saying other authoritarian countries’ citizens that they just ‘didn’t riot hard enough and this are all to blame’ was a bit wrong
55% of your countrymen chose fascism. If you don’t want fascism I think it’s time to leave.
Technically it’s not a full 55% of my countrymen, just 55% of the ones who bothered to vote. I’ll admit that’s not really a meaningful distinction though. Unfortunately, there’s also more of us who want to leave than the rest of the world can reasonably handle. I hope as many marginalized people can get out, because it’s going to be bad, especially for them. But those, like me, who are unlikely to be directly targeted due simply to being lucky enough to be born straight, white, men should probably leave those limited seats for those who truly need to leave.
Let me just leave this here:
First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a socialist. Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a trade unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.— Martin Niemöller https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came_…
I do not mean to accuse you of staying silent, but please remember: no one is safe from fascism once it is there.
Absolutely agree. I’m only talking about the fleeing the country part. Those of us who can stay are going to have to put in a lot of work, speaking out against fascism, protecting those who cannot flee, and being generally rebellious against tyranny.
If anything those of us who happen to not be directly in their crosshairs have a greater responsibility to speak out for the groups that are going to be targeted, because it could quickly get to a point where it’s dangerous for those marginalized people to be as vocal. We cannot leave the most vulnerable to fight alone for their right to exist.
People that didn’t vote, didn’t bother either way, so my point still stands.
The ones who didn’t vote are just as culpable as the ones who did.
Working on it, but for the overwhelming majority of people emigrating is a hell of a lot harder than just showing up in another country and saying “my place sucks, can I come in?”
Yup, I know. I wish you the best of luck.
There’s nothing worth rioting for.
Except minority rights (including, but not limited to LGBTQ+, especially T), healthy immigration policy, right to abortion, fair economic policy, environmental policies, and a million other things.
Unions, equality, education, healthcare…
Let me clarify my statement: America is over. There is nothing worth getting hurt over. Most people here seem to want what is to come. I’m planning to cut my losses if it starts coming to fruition and move somewhere more progressive.
That’s what happens to many authoritarian shitholes: progressives move and evacuate, loyalists remain. That’s how the country gets screwed more and more.
And US is a pretty high-stakes country, so losing that would be very bad.
I will be happy to lay down my life to defend the downtrodden. My 73 year old mom is married to a woman, and I’m terrified of the day they come for her.
Eh, lofty words. Your best bet is to move. This isn’t like the old civil war times. Most people want this, apparently.
I have a 73 year old mom who is married to an amazing woman. I have to stay to protect them.
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Victims are too white…
Most of the darker skinned ones were already run over further back on the track.
I mean you could also take the “don’t buy from US based corporations for 1 year challenge” starting january 1st 2025. Stock up on any corporate goods you need now then buy nothing for a year.
The pandemic market rallied because of a bailout after consumer spending plummeted. Would be a shame if the same thing happened and suddenly there was no emergency for a bailout to sail under.
They won’t have time and energy for persecuting people if the economy is broken.
Record/pirate a bunch of movies/shows then cancel streaming for a year. Buy any electronics now before the tariffs start. Buy surplus canned food etc. Then see how little you can spend the entire year of 2025. Planning on doing tourist stuff inside the US? Don’t. If you work at a big corporation consider deleting an important email and see what happens.
Lets fuck around.
Go extreme minimalist. Buy practically nothing you can live without. Boycott everything. Politicians only listen to their gdp and stock numbers.
Except those people tied themselves to the track and started the train themselves… Completely voluntarily.
Unfortunately not true, a lot of people who didn’t vote for Neofascism will also suffer.
there’s nothing neo about this, let’s not even give them the credit of originality. This is exactly what happened 100 years ago.
Right down to the rally at MSG, next comes the night of long knives
Whilst screaming make America great again as the trolley (s) keep going
And this is why libs are made fun of for their feckless electoralism.
Try organizing and building mutual aid networks instead of just sitting on your ass and watching.
Maybe in 4 years you’ll be better prepared.
Nobody was leftist enough for anyone this election. It was a shit show of allies with differences, fighting and calling each other Nazis. They got played by Trump, the dumbest man on earth.
I’ve had to vote for a shit sandwich in 2 elections now, just because the other option was staying home and let the fascists racists win.
Somehow to Americans. Liberal became a worse thing to be than a Nazi. Meanwhile the rest of the world who uses the Term Liberal differently, is just scratching their head watching these idiots
What KIND of liberal? There are several “liberal” variants and the two main defined variants are:
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Classic Liberalism - functionally the idea’s of the french revolution.
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Modern Liberalism - tack social justice into the mix, requiring government intervention to enforce it.
reality is, since about 1965-1970 left wing parties have been defined by the social justice bent. They have more or less been governed by an idea that they alone have the moral authority to define correct from wrong, that it is they that must define what is right wing - and over the years, a tremendous number of things, have been defined as right wing; we have seen a shift from Representatives defining laws and regulations - to regulatory agencies having the power to define the details devolved to them. We have seen the growth and bloat of bureaucracy, funded through increased taxes -and inflationary spending practices.
So the reason “liberal” is defined differently - is functionally that the definition of “liberal” has been redefined. And this reuse of terms - well: That has a storied history in a particular soviet nation. Political correctness has a very soviet history to it.
If you want to debate, and discredit a candidate based on their political stance/views and policies - ok: Do so. But maybe stop trying to define it as “nazi” - the term is ever more losing it’s weight in discussions, and that fact makes it very difficult to legitimately call out problematic entities. Because lets be clear: Trump is NOT A National Socialist - and that is a defining feature of the Nazi party.
You guys just don’t get it. It’s astounding watching this from the outside. While you argued about the new meanings you’ve given to words, and who is worthy or not of being your ally, the far right was unified and laughing at you.
Americans are on a whole other planet
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If all you do is vote then you’re a big part of the problem.
Better than staying home and bitching, and I do much more than vote, and not protest, that doesn’t work
not protest, that doesn’t work
Civil disobedience works too.
I’m not watching
The little engine that could
This metaphor has always been poor. Trains are locked on tracks. Harris’s campaign could have steered away from biden and his low approval rating, distance from the voters, and genocide, at any moment she wanted to. She wasnt locked on tracks. She chose to steer toward the right the entire last month of her campaign, losing a trickle of voters from her base every single day. She chose to steer away from addressing peoples complaints about reduced buying power instead of sympathizing with them. She chose to say she’d put republicans on her staff if elected, and listen to their ideas. She chose to take the AIPAC bribes. She wasnt at all locked on tracks and being forced to take that money. No one did this TO her. She did it to us.
Pretending she had no choices in order have someone else to blame for her choices is a really unfortunate takeaway, and dooms the party to continuing to think in ways that will lose. The massive unpopular – historically so even-- incumbent lost. Thats what happened.
Can we stop pretending this election was about Gaza?
It was about Gaza for a lot of us. Shall we stop pretending it was about the economy either? Shall we stop pretending Biden had some of the lowest approval polls on record for a president going into reelection and that Harris couldnt put together any departure from Bidens ideas? While we’re at it lets all pretend Biden was one of the all time greatest presidents, regardless of his approval ratings.
Any other realities you want us to “stop pretending” about, in order to make you feel better?
If you haven’t voted for Harris because of Gaza, congratulations. You sealed the fate of the remaining people living there. The US will increase their support and Bibi will feel more confident than ever. Palestine may be wiped out all together.
It doesn’t fucking matter that Harris isn’t everything you want from a president. She’s far from perfect. I don’t like her policies. The reality is that it was a choice between a conservative and a fascist. America chose fascism and the world will suffer.
Being a leftist and not voting because LoW aPpRoVaL is unbelievably irresponsible and I refuse to make excuses for people who stayed home.
You sealed the fate of the remaining people living there.
You have no data at all on that-- thats just a self serving hope to service your political ends. Biden let the zionists do whatever far right warcrimes they wanted, whenever they wanted, as much as they wanted. He didnt even defend the UN, journalists, aid workers or the Americans killed there. He continues to actively break the Leahy laws amongst many others. I am hopeful that since Trump and his followers are antisemites, maybe he wont be as bad as Biden/Harris. See? I can have self serving hopes exactly the same as you can.
All Biden/Harris offered were words that didnt match their actions and toothless red lines that were memory holed when Netenyahu laughed at them and bypassed them. Other presidents ended the same events with a simple phone call. So your painting of Biden/Harris as supportive of Palestinians is over the top ridiculous.
I’m also hopeful that some president after trump will sign onto the ICC treaty so we can ship Trump and Biden to the Hague for the prison sentence they are so richly overdue for.
If only you heard the voices of the people you campaign for, instead of deciding what was best for them from your computer…
So the question is do you watch or turn away?
Most likely, you’re on the track.
I’m Canadian, but I think after next year I’ll be on our own track, only with a slightly smaller and less effective train
But there’ll be a friendly announcement apologizing to the people about to be run over, right?
Unless you’re a cis straight white man…
Better also be financially well off
Unless your poor.
Yeah it’s pretty nice.
They hate their own followers just as much as anybody else. Anybody who thinks the leopards won’t eat their faces is delusional.
There’s gotta be some group doing the gassing, for the other groups to be gassed.
eventually its just the same group, plus when your standards of evidence include demon stories etc even the nazis were prone to a substiantial amount of friendly fire.
Just think of the Stalinist purges. Nobody is safe.
The issue is that there will always be more to gas. Ask not for whom the bell tolls
A conservative Christian straight white man. Everyone else is at risk
Only if you’re exactly the right denomination too.
That one’s weird though, because they cherry pick the parts they like. So it’s a weird Baptist/catholic/born again bullshit.
the supreme court is basically all catholic. Something tells me the evangelicals will get thrown under the bus at some point
One could hope, but the evangelicals got many of those Catholic judges installed. So they won’t get to that point anytime soon. There’s too many progressives, LGBTQ+, POCs, and atheists left in the US for them to target, still, and it will be that way for a long time.
A rich conservative Christian straight white man. But rich enough that if you have any health issues, you can afford them.
Affiliations can be faked.
Swear allegiance to the flag
Whatever flag they offer
Silent Running - Mike + The Mechanics
Who’s not openly atheist…
Lucky I’m not and would be willing to hide people if necessary.
My daughter is queer and has never been in the closet. My mother thinks she’ll be just fine if she just goes into the closet. Not only is that unreasonable and unfair to expect of her, the internet is forever. Since she’s never been in the closet, she doesn’t make a secret of things like her first girlfriend. If they want to hunt queer people like her down, and I think they want to, they will.
I’m just glad we have a way out. I wish I could take all the other queer people with us. Especially her girlfriend and her close trans friend.
You’re posting on here and probably other channels. The NSA, FBI, and anyone else caught up in the wholesale data collection on US citizens has a full profile on you.
Guess who now has that data?
Get out if you can.
If you can’t, go to a blue state and buy guns and ammo. Self-sort. Learn to shoot. Learn bush craft. Quit your vices. Get into shape.
If you can’t do that, I’m very sorry for your plight. Form communities where you can and try to make some sort of SHTF plan.
They’ve collected too much data and trust their algos too much. The data from lemmy isn’t nearly as easy to parse or plentiful as the data from twitter or facebook. Bitching and moaning here isn’t nearly as compromising or attention grabbing as the shit that goes on on the sites run by open fascists.
Seriously, the next time I meet some of the friends irl, I’m explaining that I wont be talking to them online without encryption involved. I ended up quitting a discord I made because they were copy/pasting their posts that was getting them banned on facebook there. Absolutely no sense of infosec. Those posts had the real names attached and now that’s associated with a discord I set up. Luckily, I was using a foreign email to register it.
Yeah encryption is a must in general but also especially going forward. I moved my group to Signal. I don’t like that it’s USA owned and run, so I’m hoping the other projects globally will start to improve interface and functionality wise. Also open to suggestions.
I tried to pull the lever but lost to all the people pulling the other way.
It wasn’t even exactly that. It was MILLIONS of people who voted Democrat previously just sitting this one out. I don’t think there are 15 Million “Gaza or bust” voters so this was just pure ignorance…
“Trump is horrible, but the Democrats made inflation. I’m not voting for either.” (Conveniently forgetting COVID and the necessary cash injection that helped keep people paying bills on time and kept businesses afloat to be there to rehire when lockdowns ended.) Ignorance…
Not that it was perfectly executed by any stretch of the imagination, but the alternative was everyone “non-essential” goes broke and businesses everywhere collapse. There was no world where we just didn’t do lockdowns, we don’t have the luxury of hindsight when something new happens obviously. We probably didn’t need the lockdowns because COVID spread regardless :(
Yeah, I would be utterly shocked if the Gaza issue lost her that many votes.
It’s utterly detestable how short voter memory is.
Hey now, you cannot blame voters. Only rage into the void about Democrats, that’s the only thing that can help. I mean it clearly worked before, right!? /s
Source: many Lemmy users.
Down the street, a guy’s house burned down. Of course, we all blame him for it - and his failure to find a message that resonated with the firefighters, to motivate them to come save the building.
Lol I hate that your analogy made me laugh because it’s awful but all I have else to do is cry, so thanks?
Crassus approves.
I don’t think there are 15 Million “Gaza or bust” voters so this was just pure ignorance…
I believe there were 15 million "oh look, Harris is besties with Liz Cheney and continuing the half assed approach that Dems keep doing so who fucking cares’ people. I totally see why her poll numbers kept dropping over the course of her campaign after a strong start.
I still voted for her, but at that point is was just another vote against Republicans.
All these people on these threads blaming it on the voters when Harris had it in her power to run a different campaign is just lazy. Harris not only had a brake she could pull to stop the “trolley”, she had a damned steering wheel to steer completely away from running people over, and she made a choice not to. Dont blame the peasants for shit leadership.
Every single swing state lost. Both congress and the house lost. Thats a badly out of touch party, not stupid voters.
I call them ignorant voters, even the really stupid ones. They are a product of decades of GOP manipulation. But why can’t it be both them and a party that is totally clueless of what needs to change to reach people. The combination is exactly what you get, people who aren’t aware of reality and are just going towards the only party that is saying exactly what they want to hear (true or not).
that I can absolutely agree with. Its refreshing to hear someone put forth multiple reasons-- everyone wants to zero in on just 1, which is human nature, I guess.
I think that takes more thought than even those who vote with us do. I think we seriously overestimate the political intelligence of the people in this country. Not to say 0% were those people, but if we’re talking millions I think we’re talking about typical ignorance.
I think the vast majority vote D for social issues, but once their pocketbook gets hurt it’s time to sit it out or worse “punish” the party in power by voting for the opposition. :(
They succeeded in punishing the party. For a price. We’ll revisit later if it was worth it.
if you listen to interviews of non voters they’re not even online. Ever. Like we need more people reaching out to real humans in the real world. they don’t listen to news they arent online. I don’t think democrats were ever going to win this one, too many voters are entirely unreachable.
It would take 100 years minimum to undo the damage that will be done, so I’m going to say “not worth it”.
The damage to the environment will never be undone. The US will double-down on emissions and most other countries in the world will stop trying because they won’t think there’s any point anymore.
Oh it will recover alright. About a million years after we go extinct. So in about 1.00005 million years.
So they thought through what it means to associate with a Cheney, but at the same time didn’t care enough to do anything about this situation? I don’t buy it. Apathy lost this election. And democrats share blame for that obviously, but acting like voters were right to stay home isn’t the right takeaway.
You will never admit that moving to the right has failed.
And democrats share blame for that obviously, but acting like voters were right to stay home isn’t the right takeaway.
Agreed, which is why I still voted despite sharing the same demotivation.
There was no world where we just didn’t do lockdowns
Maybe the world where Trump implemented the pandemic response plan that Obama left for him. But, no, we got Mr. Inject-Bleach-And-Shove-A-Lightbulb-Up-Your-Ass.
And-Shove-A-Lightbulb-Up-Your-Ass.
At least then they could say they had a bright idea!
…I’ll see myself out.
Hey, so the 15 million thing isn’t true. That was the number before all of the votes came in. She actually gained votes in battleground states, but lost them in non-battleground states (states that didn’t really matter). Just a heads up. We need to be using facts here (not trying to attack, just trying to get that information out).
You’re right but it’s 12 million less than Biden got so your not really establishing anything other than the number was a little less in the final tally. Everything they said is exactly right with 15 million or 12 million.
I appreciate the correction!
We probably didn’t need the lockdowns because COVID spread regardless :(
Gee I wonder why that happened. Couldn’t have been this
the inflation is worse than that. trump droped rates from obamas 3 or 4 percent to zero before covid. I repeat before the covid emergency which is when you might drop them a percent or so.
Organize. Sabotage. General strike. Protest. Political action isn’t one day every four years.
Yup. Robert Reich posted something that ended with “Take a moment to breathe, then let the resistance begin.”
And like, buddy, I’m sorry to say, if your resistance is only just beginning, then you are resisting the wrong thing and you will be ineffective. You should be fighting the entire empire, not just the unmasked pieces of it.
The election is your chance to ask for your preferred enemy, but if you don’t get it, your job doesn’t change.
I wonder how many fellow lefties work for Xitler’s empire who are planning sabotage ops. As long as the payload wasn’t humans, watching a SpaceX rocket spectacularly fail would put a smile on my face, knowing that silent resistance is in motion
Turn that bolt just a few degrees to the wrong direction
Syntax errors? WOMM
LFG, burn this mother fuckers scam empire to the ground
We’ll make it to Mars on our terms, once we have a home to return to
I had a chance to buy a Tesla. Chose not to. Chose a Volvo instead. All heroes don’t wear capes.
Hmm. I should buy a cape. Hey Google, remind me to buy a cape.
A general strike? Protests? Before this election I would have agreed with you. Now… half or more of the workers you’d need to pull that off voted for Trump.
A general strike right now would basically just be leftists self-blacklisting themselves and doing the fascists work for them.
If there’s anything this election has shown, it’s that there’s no unity on the left. Who are we organizing with since it’s clear that the cultists are a lost cause and the left can’t be relied on to show up when it matters most?
The problem is you need violent insurrection against the system not a group of race. But the system is in control of communications and knows everything we’re saying, so there’s nothing you can do but protest, which does literally nothing
Might be a lot smaller than a lever, but if you are a republican don’t stand there empty handed. Grab your dick and start jerking that puppy. This is what you always wanted you dumb sick fuck.
Yep. I’m focused on looking after my community/friends who have targets on their back now.
Other than that I look to republicans and say “alright, this is all you now. Better be perfect!” They shouted and screeched that their way was best. Their god is in the seat. Time to deliver a “great economy”
this is why I’m doing the “buy nothing 2025 challenge.” Would be a shame if consumer spending went down in january and sparked a panic.
oh I guarantee that to hear them tell it, it will be perfect.
And I will look upon their debt, multiple part time jobs, and falling apart rental and nod.
Me @ them:
Minus the violence, yeah I’m with ya
If my stupid family members is any indication, by “great economy” they mean they got one or two paychecks in the mail during Covid: “He made me rich!” Yes he did, you minimum wage slave.
The only thing is the viewer should be tied to the track.
DNC leadership should be tied to the track.
I agree. Its time to stop this two party system and just have the one that everyone likes better anyway.
Issue polls show that everyone wildly approves of progressive policies but they hate progressive people. If you can solve that I’d vote for you for president.
Unfortunately I can’t. Im one fo the idiots who votes for more porgressive policies (who might win) vs less and could care less about what someone is like. Don’t get me wrong. obama was so effing amazeballs when it comes to what I would want a president to be if you are not concerned with how they run the country. Educated, well spoken, organic garden in the whitehouse with a michael stipe looking chef making beer and mead. I mean wow. But biden still blows me away with what he accomplished in an incredibly adversarial situation.
Eh, he might be a cis het white Christian who hates what’s going on?
Me. I have a sense of building survivors guilt as I watch my LGBTQ+ friends panic. I’m offering them support but I am aware that I can personally avoid being targeted and it pisses me off. Why should I get to be relatively okay while my friends suffer an incoming genocide? The thoughts that come from that feel self destructive. Like hurting myself just to prove I had something to lose. In reality the best thing I think I will be able to do is help my friends under all circumstances and go from there. Maybe join my local Socialist organization to assist in a larger assistance for the coming years. Idk man.
Thing is that when things are done well everybody basically wins and when done poorly everyone does poorly. just not in equal measure. maybe he would have a pinkie tied to the rail.
I think it’s fitting. He himself would be physically fine whilst everything collapses around him when the floor drops out.
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