lemmy.ml users reaction:
I block everything from .ml because I rather not be part of Russian or China-nese psyops.
I’m out of the loop, what’s going on?
Why would you want to create an echo chamber? I genuinely don’t get it, it’s the internet, if you encounter an opinion you disagree with, literally just close the tab and it’s gone
Listen. Just fuckin listen to me. The moment I joined lemmy every enthusiast was singing praise to the fediverse and how it’s easy to maintain the freedom of speach and yada yada yada. What it turned out to be is just constant quarrels between instances, defederations and crap like that while lemmy still fucking struggles to even become a mere shadow of reddit. I fucking hate reddit, I think spez should be covered in fire ants, but by god, looking at how insufferable most vocal lemmy users are, I may get back to reddit, probably as many other lemmy users already did.
“We should defederate from everything which does not agree with my .world view and create a giant centralized echo chamber”!
Why the fuck does every .world user suddenly want Lemmy to be Reddit?
grabs some popcorn
I don’t think the meme makes sense. The ml users don’t seem to care how much other content is out there. They still participate as much as they’d like.
Posting this to lemmy.world, lol
https://sh.itjust.works/c/meanwhileongrad
Here is a nice community that keeps track of their bullshit
Is my instance de-federated if this community is “completely empty”?
Lemmy.dbzer0.com/c/yepowertrippinbastards also keeps track of the bullshit the mods do.
Most of the posts there call out OPs for thier bullshit. It’s hilarious. There’s like one or two instances that actually have a mod do something bad.
What happens when the mod of that community overreaches?
I like the idea of growing non-ml community, however, I wish larger instances do not block ML. Otherwise, they would just move to lemmy.ee or lemmy.one, just like how they moved from hexbear and grad to ml.
It is great tankies got their own place where they can be happy, but I really don’t want to interact with them. I am emotional about issues they engage in, and emotional me is usually not the nicest version of myself.
Social media is one of the few ways I can relax for couple hours per week outside of my job, and I really don’t want my social media experience to go full investigative journalism.
They moved from hexbear? I thought .ml had got worse! I wish my instance would defederate from them, but it seemed so hard for them to do that from HB.
Tbf, many of the users already had accounts on both, but yeah since “no means yes” to them, when HB got defederated from they simply switched to whatever would allow them to continue their harassment campaigns. Lemmygrad.ml users say the same as well.
So if ML ever were to be defederated with, from let’s say LW (Lemmy.World), they would continue forward with LW accounts rather than take the strong “suggestion” that they not.
That’s why I prefer the approach that PieFed is testing out: not outright blocking it but placing an icon next to users that e.g. are brand-new accounts, or a different icon for those who have more downvotes than upvotes.
Hexbear mods tolerate (and sometimes encourage) the worst behaviors of their user base, which is why instances defederate from hexbear.
When those users join other instances one of two things happens:
- the mod team does their job, forcing those users to tone down their behavior or get banned.
- the instances goes to shit and other instances defederate from them.
As long as you stick to a decent instance it’s eventually a self correcting problem. You can also block instances yourself in your account settings on lemmy.
Yup. Fwiw, PieFed.social has actually defederated from hexbear.net and lemmygrad.ml, so the approach I mentioned is more for overall instances like Lemmy.ml.
Although instance blocking does very little - only muting communities from that instance, but the users can still reply to you, generating notifications when they do, and they can vote and thereby influence the visibility of your content (especially impactful when it is first starting out in a larger community and even 1-2 downvotes can prevent it from being seen by many).
PieFed, along with the Lemmy apps Sync and Connect, and the Lemmy instances lemmy.cafe and Tesseract on dubvee.org allow for true blocking of all users from lemmy.ml (the latter two requiring admin support but they have chosen to defederate from all of the big 3, and they are the only instances to have done so, thus earned quite the distinction).
lemm.ee is estonian so i think they’d have a harder time there
- posted on *.world
The irony of a community promoting socialism while also instabanning anyone for the slightest wiff of criticism is just chef’s kiss peak representation of why their system is doomed.
If you can’t withstand the slightest nudge of criticism how are you even going to attempt to provide a governance system based on any kind of economic directive? If Marx could see what you guys have become he’d personally wipe his ass with your lame ml instance
Lemmy.ml communism is mostly just a facade for spreading propaganda to useful idiots. If they were real communists I’d have some respect for them.
this is just stupid… socialism wont work because online moderation is hard?? sigh… so tedious
Well. If the most ardest proponents can’t hold it to the fire then how are the rest of us normies supposed to come on board? Clearly there is a disconnect between praxis and ideology
Seems like the ultimate nature of leftist ideology is that there are too many cooks in the kitchen, and everyone has a slightly differing philosophy that they refuse to budge on. So they fight eachother instead of the existential fascist threat.
Leftists infighting! That’s crazy!
I sounded like you until I went offline and learned about Anarchism, anarcha-communism, intersectionality, Mutualism and Solidarity Economies. You might get your feelings hurt by online ML’s, but that’s not the real world. I dont agree much or even at all with some ML’s, and others I date. And I give less than zero fucks about what any .world neolib has to say about anything, given how much their system more than anything else has colonized and raped the planet and her peoples.
I’m all for anarcho-communism. I studied it in college. I don’t know what the execution looks like though in practice but I find it appealing.
🫶 In practice, every locality people are being the rescue workers to their neighbors Whenever and whereever Corporate & State institutions inevitably give way to their own weight and parasitism, the darker the times, the brighter folks shine. It isnt always intentional solidarity (rural townfolk often embody the practices as a matter of survival and culture, diverse as any peoples), and I’m always leery of calling things “natural”…but I do believe people have a tendency to want to help one another.
Local Mutual Aid organizations, and Encouraging anti-authoritarian parenting methods, are the two things we can do to drastically reduce violence in our society
“Practicing mutual aid is the surest means for giving each other and to all the greatest safety, the best guarantee of existence and progress, bodily, intellectually and morally.” Mutual Aid By Pëtr Kropotkin https://thereitis.org/kropotkins-mutual-aid/ https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/petr-kropotkin-mutual-aid-a-factor-of-evolution https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/anarcho-mutual-aid-an-introduction-and-evaluation
“The structures of our state economies are going to matter in terms of protecting democracies, and by that I mean if you look at economies that were based in the kind of small producer economies like New England was vs states like the South and the American West that were always built on the idea of very high capital using extractive methods to get resources out of the land either cotton or mining or oil or water or agri business, those economies always depend on a few people with a lot of money, and then a whole bunch of people who are poor and doing the work for those Rich guys – and that I’m not sure is compatible in terms of governance without addressing the reality that you know if people have more of a foothold in their own communities, they are then more likely to support the kinds of legislation that Community [Education, Healthcare, …] and that may be the future of democracy, if not a national democracy"
https://youtu.be/D7cKOaBdFWo?t=2139 Heather Cox Richardson, professor of American history On The Weekly Show with Jon Stewart on Trump’s Win and What’s Next
Our resulting interactions may seem chaotic and illegible to authority, but it is through that seeming chaos that vastly complex, horizontal, and resilient practices of learning, cooperation, and reciprocity have historically arisen. https://youtu.be/qkN_nQPpeSU Mutualism: What Anarchy Needs By Andrewism
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarchism/comments/jp3q4p/comment/gbesw1p/
About preventing crime, the short version is that it starts in the home.
Much violent crime can be traced back to cultural factors. Violent crime, such as murder, would probably decrease dramatically in an anarchist society because most of its causes — poverty, televised glorification of violence, prisons and police, warfare, sexism, and the normalization of individualistic and anti-social behaviors — would disappear or decrease.
The differences between two Zapotec communities illustrates that peace is a choice. The Zapotec are a sedentary agrarian indigenous nation living on land that is now claimed by the state of Mexico. One Zapotec community, La Paz, has a yearly homicide rate of 3.4/100,000. A neighboring Zapotec community has the much higher homicide rate of 18.1/100,000. What social attributes go along with the more peaceful way of life? Unlike their more violent neighbors, the La Paz Zapotec do not beat children; accordingly, children see less violence and use less violence in their play. Similarly, wife-beating is rare and not considered acceptable; women are considered equal to men, and enjoy an autonomous economic activity that is important to the life of the community so they are not dependent on men. Regarding child-rearing, the implications of this particular comparison are corroborated by at least one cross-cultural study on socialization, which found that warm, affectionate socialization techniques correlate with low levels of conflict in society.
https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/peter-gelderloos-anarchy-works
As for the re-emergence of hierarchies, I think that the notion of anarchism is essentially ‘checks and balances’ turned up to 11. You get to a society that’s an ecosystem of fluid social relationships, and an anti-authoritarian culture which makes it impossible in a million ways for anyone to accumulate power. If we could get there, I think it would be more robust than current liberal democracy, where the branches of government can cooperate and you need buy-in from less people to enable power to be accumulated.
IMO, good anarchist praxis is to 1) encourage and popularize anti-authoritarian parenting methods and 2) build strong community groups and mutual aid networks.
It’s because socialism does not stand up to outside pressures. It always turns towards benevolent totalitarianism as a method of defending itself from bad actors.
“benevolent”
Well yeah, implementation may vary with dictators.
I blocked .ml and there was a sharp decrease of content.
Seeing that, I was forced to walk back and use reedit more. At least there you won’t find people arguing pro-genocide in a post about Linux Kernel.
Here’s a list of a few .ml communities and potential replacements:
- ask lemmy - !asklemmy@lemm.ee !asklemmy@sh.itjust.works
- linux - !linuxquestions@lemmy.zip !linux@linux.community !linux@programming.dev
- memes* - !memes@sopuli.xyz !memes@slrpnk.net !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone !memes@midwest.social
- programmer humor - !programmer_humor@programming.dev
- world news - !news@beehaw.org !globalnews@lemmy.zip
- technology - !technology@sh.itjust.works
- funny - !funny@sh.itjust.works
- ukraine - !ukraine@sopuli.xyz
Side note the main issue with .ml is transparency. It’s fine if the admins of an instance implement whatever rules they want in their instance; however, once they start enforcing hidden rules disguised as violations of the listed rules, they’re being liars and treating the users as stupid things to be herded, not as human beings.
EDIT: as people noticed I’m not including .world comms to not encourage even further concentration of activity into the largest instance. Decentralisation is important. Also I’m adding stuff that you guys suggest.
* for specialised memes, as the category is rather large:
I had the audacity to say that the deaths of Tiannanmen’s Square were inexcusable, no matter who started the violence, and my comment was removed under instance rule 1 (bigotry)… like wat 😂
I dared to say that the illegal, violent invasion of the foreign nation of Ukraine was bad. Turns out NATO made them do that, as well as rape and torture all those people and steal the children. Who knew… 🤷♂️
Ah, typical lemmy.ml . They have a hard time understanding that you can support a certain ideology without necessarily turning a blind eye to everything that people claim to be doing for the sake of said ideology, or that any criticism against their actions is automatically false.
I remember you, by the way. You were already an old Lemmy user when I joined in, 3y ago!
My OG account is 6 years old 👴
You are our past
Our present
Our future
The irony of so-called Marxist-Leninists refusing to be self-critical…
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_and_self-criticism_(Marxism–Leninism)
The .ml transparency thing is a symptom, not a root cause. The admins like and even participate in the .ml rhetoric. The rules ambiguity is intentional.
We could argue that the root cause is that .ml admins pretending that their instance’s target audience is wider than it actually is.
Their target audience is Westerner suckers gullible enough to have their opinions manipulated
I was rejected when I first tried to sign up (when I was entirely new to lemmy) and they’re turning at least one user away now
Ah, they do it now? When I signed up there (~3y ago) there was no such thing.
Anyway, it’s still a problem because most users interacting with .ml content are from other instances.
3 years ago were there any other instances with traction? Agreed on your second point.
Nah, there were just LG and .ml, as OpenStars said. Technically HB too but they didn’t federate due to technical limitations.
Lemmygrad.ml is 5 years old, and hexbear.net is 4 years old.
Yep. I was not accepted several times. Now I am
It’s a great advertisement for communism that’s for sure. They haven’t even gotten real power and it already resembles the worst of what communism offers. They’re a bunch of wannabe Ceausescu’s.
the main issue with .ml is
transparencyauthoritarian propaganda with full-throated support from the adminsMmhmm, mmhmm - secret laws, secret trials - definitely not authoritarian behavior at all.
If they were banning people for shit posting on a communism community I wouldn’t have a problem. Its when you get removed banned from all communities because you said you don’t like there crappy memes
Or even if they had an instance-wide rule saying “don’t criticise Russia or China here”. It’s fine as long as the rules are clear.
But no, instead they libel the users criticising either, claiming that they violated rule #1 (TL;DR “no bigots”). Even when the criticism is clearly against the government.
And then you get a bunch of 11yos eating that ban message for breakfast, because they’re
full of gullibleness and don’t get the purpose of this utterancedumb fucks.Tbf, that admin telling someone to kill themselves wasn’t exactly a high mark for their ethics imho.
It isn’t a high mark, I agree. But while the “kill you are self lol.” thing could be just an admin in a really shitty day, this lack of transparency is consistent behaviour.
I get what you are saying: shittiness that happens daily is a more consistent pattern than something that happens ONCE.
On the other hand, an admin telling someone to literally kill themselves is such an extreme event that it might be grounds for their removal as an admin?
It’s an age-old philosophy problem: which is worse, stealing daily vs. actually killing someone once?
Or is that a trick question, since both are kinda shitty, no?
In any case, what happens when someone does BOTH of them?
The answer is ofc literally nothing, when said person is protected by the instance admins who are also the developers of this codebase. I wonder what would have happened though if Huffman was caught saying something similar to the users of Reddit? Yeah, nothing, that’s right - it’s not like we would leave Reddit or anything:-P. (Except I did, and now I’ve left Lemmy too, hello from PieFed!:-D)
Yup, they are both shitty, and grounds to remove an admin.
However when it’s a single event there’s still the chance that it won’t happen again, as the admin could regret it. There’s still grounds for “this won’t affect me, as a user, in the future”.
And when it’s both, as you said, it gets even worse.
Afaik the admins are the creators of lemmy right? Or are they just the creators of a particular instance? If its the first i would imagine they are the only ones that can de-admin themselves, and if its the latter i would imagine no one can de-admin them
Dessalines is literally one of the people who founded Lemmy, so the former
Holy shit, source? Which admin said that? I have one in mind and I wanna know if I’m right
I believe this comment is the original, in which case I misremembered the situation slightly: the admin wasn’t telling the OP to kill themselves, but rather stating that they (the admin) wanted to kill the OP directly. They also doubled down on that further down, and tripled down still further, e.g. stating “I hope you die soon” (all while claiming that people with PTSD could have been triggered by a fictional depiction of an unannounced kiss among friends, yet ignoring how a mod stating irl that they wish to shoot a poster would also be a much worse trigger, for violence).
A short synopsis is that a comic, written by a Latin American woman fwiw (Latin American people are more prone to touch each other, especially in relationships), about a game scenario wherein a girl kisses a guy friend, is removed and the admin tells the OP that they want to kill them (specifically, shoot them). All of this seems predicated on the misunderstanding that in the game you need to reach 10 hearts prior to being able to kiss someone, whereas that is actually at 8 hearts and by 10 hearts you can already safely ask for their hand in marriage… or something like that. Anyway the (fictious) guy in this comic about the game has already asked the girl out on a date at the level 8 marker, offering her a bouquet of flowers, which she accepts, and then the scenario in question occurs at the level 10 marker. This is by no means a “sexual assault” - they are in an established relationship, which took effort to build up, requiring back and forth signals from both sides, each acquiescing and signaling a readiness to not only continue it but to escalate it further. But the admin did not research the game, and instead went off unhinged with this wish for OP to die by their own hand.
There is an ENORMOUS amount of additional backstory details in https://lemm.ee/post/45248880 if you want to read more. Ignore Lvxferre and I’s tangent on moderation practices in hexbear but definitely pay attention to Lvxferre’s top-voted explanation of the context and below that a direct discussion with the actual admin in question, or at least the beginnings of one though the admin immediately ceased responding upon the first pushback of their practices. Also here’s an extremely relevant & helpful comment: https://lemm.ee/post/45248880/15580086, and below that an additional conversation between the admin and the OP, wherein despite how vehemently the admin goes hard against OP for “sexual assault”, in describing his own comment advocating for murder of the OP he says simply “It’s just a comment bro” (the irony there is palpable!).
Some of the original is now impossible to follow properly bc despite the admin continuing to get triggered by OP’s words in defense of their actions, we can now see only the admin’s side of the story, as OP’s have all been forcibly removed. However, that’s enough imho, bc no matter what the defense was seems irrelevant given that level of rhetoric levied against OP, describing their murder at the hands of the admin. And all for a (comic about a game about a) kiss that was reciprocated hence consensual to begin with, and among people who have already begun to become romantically involved, that the admin decided must be described as none other than sexual assault.
Don’t get lost in all the details and miss the main point though: even if the admin had been correct about the kiss, how would that justify their own actions to say how they wanted to murder OP and hopes that they die soon?
People continually report being disappointed by the moderation practices going on at lemmy.ml, hence moving communities off of it is a self-protective measure to try to keep Lemmy alive rather than allow such to send people away, possibly back to Reddit.
That comic is cute as hell lmao
I love seeing kissless virgins explain that any kind of affection given without explicit verbal consent is sexual violence, no matter the circumstances
I need you to understand that posts like these can absolutely wreck someones day and pose a barrier to the site and lemmy as a whole. So best case: it’s ableist to put it up.
This reads like a character in a conservative political cartoon. Complaining about ableism while simultaneously telling someone you want to murder them. If this is who we’ve got moderating our online spaces, the left is fucking cooked
I mean, tbf they aren’t actually “leftist”, most people agree, just play pretending to be such without seeming to really understand what that even means.
Also I probably went way overboard with the explanation bc the mere fact that the girl in the comic immediately reciprocates tells all the backstory needed that she did actually want it - she was merely surprised at first, not shocked and horrified as a triggering event would have been.
Anyway, good luck getting this admin removed - they are more entrenched on lemmy.ml than an admin would be at Reddit. Although similarly, we don’t have to remain associated with the likes of
Redditlemmy.ml and can move on to better things.Sort of, except that the mod tools on Lemmy reportedly suck, especially over instance barriers. The admins seem to not be prioritizing that, which btw I am 100% in support of the fact that that is their right to do so - we are using their codebase after all (well, you are, on PieFed I’m not:-), and if we want better, it would be up to us to build it, either by contributing to Lemmy or one of its alternatives like PieFed or Mbin (although Sublinks seems dead maybe?).
That rule becomes clear very quickly when you’re familiar with Lemmy. (Unless you’re defederated from .ml.)
It is not enough; it should be explicit. Users should be able to know the rules of an instance before they even interact with it.
memes:
- !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone is the single best meme community on lemmy, imho
- !memes@midwest.social,
and for more specialized memes:
- !science_memes@mander.xyz,
- !reactionmemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com,
- !mathmemes@lemmy.blahaj.zone,
- !loweffortmemes@walledgarden.xyz,
- !lotrmemes@midwest.social,
- !leftymemes@lemmy.dbzer0.com,
- !flippanarchy@lemmy.dbzer0.com,
- !femcelmemes@lemmy.blahaj.zone,
- !fedimemes@feddit.uk
world news: I realize you’re avoiding lemmy.world to promote decentralization which is why you’re listing !news@beehaw.org, but note that beehaw defederated itself from lemmy.world and from several others?
I’ve added all of them to the list, thanks!
Regarding !news@beehaw.org, now there’s an alternative there.
Is femcel memes ironic?
Their sidebar has a longish explanation of where they’re coming from.
I’ll check it out, thanks.
Edit: sounds good to me. Especially that last bit.
I suggest you add !globalnews@lemmy.zip to the news section. Beehaw isn’t accessible to people on instances they’ve defederated from or instances that have defederated them.
!asklemmy@lemmy.world has over 70 times as many subscribers as the other two asklemmy communities combined.
I’m avoiding linking lemmy.world instances. We shouldn’t put even more eggs in that basket, you know.
But maybe we shouldn’t throw out the few eggs Lemmy does have.
Did they suggest moving to the random.trsh website? This is still Lemmy, it’s still federalized and non-corporate and decentralized.
Nobody is throwing eggs out. I’m recommending one basket instead of another, that’s it.
deleted by creator
Yeah, it should be easier to grow ten communities about the same topic than one.
If you want to grow other instances, do it with unique stuff, not stuff .world already has. It’s not like there no room left.
Get a game developer to start posting their stuff on your new instance. Get celebrities to start posting their AMAs somewhere. Get big newspapers to start their own instance.
Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have. Federation is a feature, not a purpose, and it’s already doing its job by making .ml less relevant for a good reason.
Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have.
!showsandmovies@lemm.ee has twice the number of active users compared to !television@lemmy.world , still people won’t move to it, keeping both communities active and preventing grow of a single community on that topic.
If you’re so in favor of growing single communities on a topic, could you please consider redirecting to the lemm.ee community? It’s not like LW is lacking in active communities
Same for !movies@lemm.ee and !movies@lemmy.world
I think you might have a bias.
I’d generally be in favor of some kind of cooperation agreement. I’d certainly promote the larger community over the smaller one.
We absolutely have allowed moderators to close and redirect their community off of LW…
Yeah, it should be easier to grow ten communities about the same topic than one.
Yeah, because people don’t totally cross-post stuff all the time, or subscribe to multiple comms around the same topic.
If you want to grow other instances, do it with unique stuff, not stuff .world already has. It’s not like there no room left.
If you’re that pissed that I’m not listing .world comms, to the point of trying to boss me around (see emphasis on imperative), you can list yourself those comms. With blackjack and hookers.
Do something other than trying to kill the dozen successful Lemmy communities we do have.
Okay, full stop here. Cut off the crap - in no moment I’m trying to “kill” those communities in .world, and you’re being a disingenuous liar (or worse, a bloody moron) for claiming otherwise.
Not going to waste my time further with you.
Hey. Hey, people. Just selecting each link and subscribing will vastly improve your experience here in the fediverse. Do it now, before you forget!
An odd choice on their part is dessalines upvoting every comment that corresponds to a removal or ban. Feels almost as though they’ve Jerry-rigged their moderation code to an extreme degree in order to keep up with the day job levels of moderation they’re doing.
Added to the list - thanks!
I humbly submit:
Added to the list.
Merci
Hello! That’s a very lovely formatted table with links, however, clicking on them does nothing for me whilst clicking on links otherwise in the replies does take me to the respective communities. I don’t know if it’s just me though.
That’s weird - are you accessing lemmy through a browser, or some app?
Check if it works here: !funny@sh.itjust.works
If it does then it’s the table interacting weirdly with the links, I can fix it by removing the table.
Fwiw all the links work fine for me from both PieFed and Lemmy.World base web UI even without an account. So it must be an app issue, and all the “standard” methods of access work.
It must be an app issue then. (Certainly not an instance issue, as Mothra is in the same instance as I do.)
Just to be safe I’m going to convert the thing into a bullet points list.
