When China’s BYD recently overtook Elon Musk’s Tesla as the global leader in sales of electric vehicles, casual observers of the auto industry might have been surprised.

But what’s caught other carmakers around the world off-guard is something else about BYD, which is backed by Warren Buffett’s Berkshire Hathaway: its low prices.

“No one can match BYD on price. Period,” Michael Dunne, CEO of Asia-focused car consultancy Dunne Insights, told the Financial Times. “Boardrooms in America, Europe, Korea and Japan are in a state of shock.”

BYD can keeps its costs low in part because it owns the entire supply chain of its EV batteries, from the raw materials to the finished battery packs. That matters because a battery accounts for about 40% of a new electric vehicle’s price.

  • HappycamperNZ@lemmy.world
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    10 months ago

    Uh… yeah? China beats nearly everyone on price but you don’t go there for quality and durability.

    • Jode@midwest.social
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      10 months ago

      The American car companies haven’t exactly been stellar with regards to quality, reliability, and safety lately either.

    • MonsterMonster@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      That’s what the British car industry said in the 60s and 70s about Japanese cars. Everyone bad mouthed anything made in Japan as being poor quality.

      The Japanese succeeded through good products and their domestic rivals (in Britain) being arrogant, xenophobic and letting standards slide thinking they were great and couldn’t be beaten.

      I’ve a Japanese Honda CRV (ironically built in UK) and a Chinese built MG5 EV. The EV is best built car I’ve owned in 35 years.

      Many established car brands are going to disappear Tesla, I believe, being one.

      • Mwalimu@baraza.africa
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        10 months ago

        I once read that the failure of British industrial policy to engage labour as a long term competitive edge instead of a dispensable short term concern saw Germany overtake British car makers. Germany dealt with labour strikes more comprehensively by engaging labour in policy structures. Like including Labour representatives in boardrooms.

        I wonder how this may reflect on Chinese / Western competitiveness.

        Found the piece: https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-23406467

        • chitak166@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I wonder how this may reflect on Chinese / Western competitiveness.

          Sounds like it’s almost a 1:1 copy of what happened with the Brits.

          For whatever reason, English speakers are easily-duped into thinking non-English speakers can’t compete.

    • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      That view is unfortunately out of date. Many Chinese products are of equal or superior quality to their global counterparts. Think Lenovo laptops and OnePlus smartphones. Chinese stuff can be cheap and high quality.

      • Shyfer@ttrpg.network
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        10 months ago

        Then it’s got to be what the person below said: beating the hell out of their workers, poor conditions and benefits, stuff like that.

        • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          You are one hundred per cent correct. There’re a million things you can criticise Chinese manufacturing for but universally poor quality isn’t one of them

        • mriormro@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          One of the reasons these commodities can get so cheap is because the true cost is obfuscated through the vicious exploitation of labor at every step of the chain.

          We may not have paid the full cost of the product, but those who were directly involved in their fabrication certainly did.

      • pycorax@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Lenovo has lost all sense of reputation for me after the whole superfish fiasco.

      • Aceticon@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        In my own experience trying the waters for a business importing and selling LED Light Bulbs from China, they’re a mix of little crappy companies and large more well established ones and the larger ones are perfectly capable of designing and making good products but due to the market pressure for “make it as cheap as possible” end up mainly cutting down on component quality and using cheaper designs to make it cheaper.

        Sure, the tiny companies are generally crap and the local culture (at least in Electronics, and at the time which was a decade ago) was to expect things to be cheap and break down often, but the larger companies are professional and can actually make quality products, its just that they generally are very weak in branding so can’t really get people to pay them for quality, hence end up either mainly competing on price or working as suppliers for non-Chinese companies which are little more than Brand-management outfits (which is pretty what all big name Brands in the West are nowadays - managers of one or more famous brands, not creators of superior products).

        • macrocephalic@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          I’ve heard the exact same thing before: Chinese manufacturers will build to whatever quality you pay for, but almost everyone just asks for the absolute cheapest. The profit margins on the absolute cheapest quality are better than competing with other countries who can also produce higher quality goods.

      • Justin@lemmy.jlh.name
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        10 months ago

        Lenovo is mostly American. The Thinkpad division was bigger than Lenovo when they bought it. Many of the directors and teams are based in the USA.

      • andrai@feddit.de
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        10 months ago

        There is nothing unfortunate about being able to buy products that are both cheap and high quality.

      • teamevil@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Yeah but lots more Chinese stuff is cheap shiny trash. If there’s a way to lie and cut a corner they’ll ,do it…not that America would be any different but they dont make anything here anymore.

        • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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          10 months ago

          That’s a pretty unfortunate viewpoint. At least in the corporate world, Lenovo laptops have a decent reputation for reliability (read: last long enough to where the replacement cycle is economical). Where I last worked IT, the lifespan of a Lenovo laptop was four years. That doesn’t mean that they break after four years, but just that we recycle and replace them with a new computer after that. That seems to be average for a corporate laptop.

          Calling them “cheap shit” means you’re either uninformed and unfamiliar or you hold your standards far higher than the average computer buyer.

          • Kbin_space_program@kbin.social
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            10 months ago

            Oh I know the corporate world loves the idea of Lenovo laptops.

            They’re cheap and can easily run web apps and office. All that most people need them for.

            If you have to run any software of consequence though, they’re simply not up to it.

            • BugKilla@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              I run software of consequence and have no issues with performance, heat or general functionality. You’ll need to cite some evidence to back up your claim.

            • NateNate60@lemmy.world
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              10 months ago

              What do you consider “software of consequence”? I worked for a mid-size municipal government. We had hundreds of users (or at least hundreds of Active Directory accounts). Everyone used Lenovo laptops. We had city planners running ArcGIS on them, the engineers at the public works department planned roads and sewage lines on them, HR calculated payroll on them, the council used them for their meetings, the municipal court staff used them for managing filings and tickets, and the police department used them to issue said tickets.

              If none of that is “software of consequence”, then what the goddamn fuck is?

              • Ferris@infosec.pub
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                10 months ago

                I believe if you look a second time the person you replied to has become someone who replied to them.

            • intelisense@lemm.ee
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              10 months ago

              I think we’re mixing up the consumer grade Lenovo laptops (cheap crap) with Lenovo Thinkpads (business grade and built like a tank). We use a lot of Thinkpads and they’re good - nice even, and they survive a lot of abuse.

      • LemmyIsFantastic@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Both Lenovo and OnePlus are garbage. Out of all the shitty companies and you go to those two for an example of quality?

    • ABCDE@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      They produce a lot of quality and durable products in China. Apple and Tesla are both producing there, as do many thousands of other companies.

    • tomatopathe@sh.itjust.works
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      10 months ago

      Your iPhone / Samsung is manufactured there. So no, that’s a bad take. You get what you pay for, and good quality is still cheaper than made elsewhere.

      • pycorax@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Samsung is slowly moving some production from China though. For instance, my phone is manufactured in Vietnam instead.

        • Sl00k@programming.dev
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          10 months ago

          That doesn’t say much about the build quality though as the reason companies are moving out of China is Chinas increased manufacturing costs.

    • chitak166@lemmy.world
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      10 months ago

      You gotta be a special kind of innocent to think Americans make quality automobiles.

    • IWantToFuckSpez@kbin.social
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      10 months ago

      The BYD cars they sell in the West are pretty decently build. I’d be more worried about the aftersales services. Chinese electronics companies always have shitty customer service. Like Lenovo and Huawei. And since a car always needs some repairs during its lifetime I will never buy an EV from a Chinese brand unless they have proven to have good aftersales service.

      • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Daewoo. Had a gf that owned a Daewoo. It was a car, lol. Only real problem was we had to drive an hour and a half to get the thing serviced.

    • gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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      10 months ago

      Not to mention: I’ll eat my hat if the CCP isn’t providing some sort of subsidization, for no other reason than the fact that it’s a national pride thing for them

      • Augustiner@lemmy.world
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        10 months ago

        Most carmakers get heavily subsidized. All the German ones for example. It’s a big industry and states like to keep their brands competitive.