What is lemmy.world doing defederating before hexbear even federates? lemmy.world/instances
This is what it took to defederate from exploding-heads after being federated with them since the start of lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/post/747912?scrollToComments=true
What evidence do you have of hexbear breaking the lemmy or citizen code of conduct?
Has the criteria for defederation changed?
Hexbear is one of the largest and most active lemmy instances:
Compared to lemmy.ml:
Compared to lemm.ee:
and lemmy.world:
Isn’t Hexbear the ex-ChapoTrapHouse subreddit that started their own sub with blackjack and hookers?
I.e. they created (and, importantly, modified) their own Lemmy instance. And, supposedly, they’re working to fix what they broke, so they can rejoin with the larger fediverse without losing their content?
So before we wax paranoid about the intentions of lemmyworld admins, shouldn’t we consider that this might just be a temporary measure to prevent technical issues while they bring their fixes into production?
Let’s just wait until LW admins make their announcement before we pass judgement. I fully agree there is no political reason to defederate from them. I don’t know if their community is problematic but everything I’ve heard would suggest otherwise. And I do not know the timeframe or technical details of their supposed plan to refederate. So again, while I agree with you, I think perhaps it is a bit early for speeches.
CTH was kind of a problematic sub (quite separate from the claimed “don’t be mean to slaveholders” reason for their banning), so I’m not really opposed to not welcoming a mirror of a sub known for brigades and trolling other communities with open arms. Maybe their new administration/moderation/community is better, but lemmy.world can always federate after they’ve demonstrated that elsewhere.
That won’t happen and you know it. Once this is established there will never be any movement on it. Your position just functionally means it’ll always be defederated.
Eh, so be it. CTH made its own bed and in the thread talking about federating users are demonstrating why people should be skeptical of the value of federating with a troll-prone instance. The mods of CTH back in the day also sometimes asked their users to behave themselves, it didn’t really work. And since their admins have explicitly said they won’t police trolling elsewhere, it’s really nothing more than a passing suggestion.
In an ideal world, lemmy.world waits and sees if they’re really committed to keeping their shit on local. In a non-ideal world never federating with instances extremely likely to troll is also a pretty good choice.
Just ban the individuals that do end up being a problem it’s not fucking hard. Christ. Lemmyverse is fucking tiny I moderate bigger individual subreddits than lemmy has registered total users, with fewer mods. Handling the load from a few problem individuals is a non-issue.
Alternately make non-troll leftists join a non-troll instance if they want to just go out into the wider Fediverse without the stigma. Once they federate they won’t have to be on the CTH-successor instance, they’re choosing to be there. Like I said in my other reply to you, I don’t find the lemmygrad users nearly as trollish as CTH was. It’s not the ideology that’s the problem, it’s the trolling, and they’re pre-announcing they won’t do anything to curb trolling by their users.
CTH wasn’t just a sub that happened to have some users who also trolled, they frequently organized and bragged about trolling and brigading there. And while mods need to be ready to ban individual trolls, it’s also a volunteer activity and not dealing with a rotating cast of trolls or massive brigades could be worth shutting out some posters who wouldn’t be a problem themselves. I don’t think it’s an unreasonable stance to say “wait and see if it’s a problem”, but I also don’t think it’s an unreasonable stance to say “we know what’s likely going to happen, we’re not robots who have to pretend we were born yesterday”.
Stop calling it a troll instance ffs. It’s been here for 3 fucking years and as of like one week ago represents 25% of all content ever posted from a lemmy platform. It has a culture and community that exists for far more than that and is far more established and unique than a bunch of redditors that are mad at reddit and can’t stop posting about reddit instead of actually making this place somewhere unique and fucking interesting with its own cultural stamp and reasons to be here.
What you’re doing is just slander and it’s going to make me very hostile very fucking soon. You are throwing insults at not just me but at thousands of people that I like very very much.
CTH did more than just troll, but doing something in addition to trolling doesn’t make you not a troll. Most of the rest of Reddit didn’t experience the fun in-sub content, they just experienced its trolling and brigading, and we don’t need to pretend that Hexbear and r/CTH aren’t largely one and the same. They don’t need federation to do the internal culture stuff you’re waxing poetic about, they need federation to troll.
And I couldn’t care less whether calling CTH or your thousands of friends trolls is going to make you hostile. THEY were hostile to other people because it was fun for them. The trolling is already here via the OP. It’s tiresome and just degrades forums for their targets and everyone not in on the joke trying to figure out what their issue is. You guys don’t get to spend years trolling reddit just to say “we have a new name now, so you can’t judge us on our prior actions”.
Maybe admins will wait and see. If somehow it isn’t a huge source of trolling then I fully support federating. But I’m going to say I don’t think the odds are good. And if the admins do what you expect and don’t go back and revisit the choice I can’t say I’m going to think it’s a huge loss.
I’m literally not reading anything from you anymore so as not to pop off. You’re full of shit and I have no interest in engaging with a bare faced liar spreading garbage for the quite obvious reason that you don’t want the socialists to be federated.
Defederation isn’t going to help trolling, when they can just make users on whatever instance they want to troll. If anything, federation will help fight trolling, since people are less likely to make throwaway accounts if they don’t need to, although idk if it’d be a noticable impact.
In any case, defederation won’t stop troll brigades.
This is the same argument about banning on Reddit, but as a former mod, my experience is that very few people will actually go through the effort to spin up an alt to keep trolling. A handful will (we had one person who put a note in their calendar to send a “mean” modmail every month for a weirdly long time), but most are just lazy bored posters who have fun messing with people they don’t like, and if they can’t conveniently browse their targets for opportunities, they’ll just go do something else they find fun rather than go through the effort. Despite accounts being basically free and meaningless, banning trolls was unexpectedly effective.
Pretty funny how you immediately abandoned this bit. Why not just be honest?
I didn’t abandon it. If they wait and see and hexbear’s users do keep the dirtbag shit to local, then they should. I just won’t really care that much if they don’t.