It’s caused plenty an awkward turn in conversations with friends as well as friends of my girlfriend’s who are almost universally Classic American Liberal Democrat™
I’m with them on domestic policy, marriage equality, LGBT rights, racial justice, electoral reform, and abortion.
Then we get to guns.
And I’m certainly not some kind of NRA nut or Y’all Qaeda tacticool dope, so it’s a lot tougher to make a strawman against gun owners when there’s one sitting there across from you that you know, like, and respect.
That being said, those occasions also give me pause because I know if we’re falling into that easy line of thinking on guns, we’re probably also doing that sort of strawman on the issues we all agree on too, there’s just nobody present to challenge that view.
Honestly, I feel like it’s so easy, especially in gun crazy states like Texas to run a Democrat who includes enjoying days at the range in their campaign advertisements, that Southern Dems have to be throwing their campaigns on purpose for some reason.
That’s not to say we should be advocating for unlimited magazines and fully auto weapons. But there should be a candidate who is like “Hey, you like your constitutional right to protect yourself? Me too. How about we start funding/investigating the programs that are already supposedly in place to catch red flag purchasers, and find out where the issues are there?”
I feel like a pro-choice, pro-LGBTQ, pro-immigratjon candidate would actually make some headway if they just let go of the gun argument, or at the very least dialed it back substantially.
or at the very least dialed it back substantially.
From what I’m aware, Beto O’Rourke completely dropped gun control as a campaign issue when he ran for governor in Texas. Granted, he was also the biggest advocate for gun control of all the candidates vying for the Democratic nomination for the 2020 election, so I don’t think anyone trusted his reversal
Yes I was a huge Beto Stan. Had his sign in my yard. But even after his reversal, I kept seeing his “HELL YEAH IM TAKING YOUR GUNS” quoted in headlines all over the state 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Of course Abbott was drowning out all the more sensible shit Beto actually said.
Beto never had a chance of getting elected in Texas on a policy of banning assault rifles. There are certainly policy decisions voters do not forget you made either so he is unelectable there now. Most people in texas support abortion rights, legalizing weed, and gun rights, but they care about the gun rights the most. Beto at this point is just a way for the democrats to raise funds from texas democrats to help themselves in other states.
It really isn’t though. That link you provided has a good mix of good ideas and stupid ideas mixed together for gun control. Many of the policies the democrats want to pass have no scientific basis which is a problem.
Agreed. I read through it, and there’s plenty of bits that are ridiculous. Manatory licensing will never happen because the 2nd Amendment is a right, not a privilege. Also, it doesn’t make sense that they’re trying to ban online sales, because those require delivery via an FFL, which means all of them get a background check.
I bet you’re closer in opinion than you think. I think most Dems would settle for universal background checks and no super weapons type rules. The same basic rules we have for other dangerous stuff. You need to buy insurance and you’re responsible if someone uses your gun in a crime. Stuff to encourage careful ownership.
And of course you’d be wrong about how similar we are on guns, since most of them are part of the crowd that doesn’t own or use guns and therefore feel that because they’ve survived without them just fine that the only obvious and reasonable course of action is that of course we should simply outlaw all guns and just have everyone all over the country turn them in (not buybacks, not voluntary, just everyone come hand over all their guns). And they feel that anyone who doesn’t see how that’s the obvious choice is just crazy.
Also, I don’t even agree with what you’ve laid out here. So you’re off on both sides of your assumption of similarity.
Yep. I go further left as the years go on, but I’m still pro 2A, though not to the same extent as a lot of republicans.
Should there be controls in place for acquiring and carrying a device that’s only purpose is taking a life? Yep. Absolutely. Especially as you move towards self defense type weapons over tools for sustenance hunting.
That being said, I have no idea how to codify those types of restrictions that maintains the spirit of 2A, while at the same time reducing the vast amount firearm deaths in the US.
There has to be some sort of balance, but I’m not the person to figure it out. Even if I had the gravitas to make changes like that, I don’t have the capabilities to properly handle something like that.
Some balance does exist that not even the right fight for. Violent felons, sexual felons, and sometimes domestic abusers lose their right to bear arms even after they’ve done time served.
It’s also an extra penalty to be armed while drunk (maybe it’s just DUI?) or while trafficking drugs.
American here to confirm that @JoBo is basically right.
Some of the smaller parties have “Open Primaries” (which is to say that you can vote for who gets to represent the party in the real election, regardless of your party registration), but the big two (Democrats and Republicans) have “Closed Primaries” which means that if you want to vote for who will be the Dem/Rep candidate in the main election, you have to be a registered member of that party.
But it is the reason I’m registered with a major party vs the one I actually like; I can always have a voice in the one I like, and I want to be able to have my microscopic amount of influence on a larger party. It’s as much of a “have your cake and eat it too” in the less-than-optimal environment of American Politics as I can get.
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Tbf, there’s liberals like that too, myself included. There’s a joke going around that “once you are far enough left you get your guns back”.
The Second Amendment by definition and history is a liberal invention.
This.
It’s caused plenty an awkward turn in conversations with friends as well as friends of my girlfriend’s who are almost universally Classic American Liberal Democrat™
I’m with them on domestic policy, marriage equality, LGBT rights, racial justice, electoral reform, and abortion.
Then we get to guns.
And I’m certainly not some kind of NRA nut or Y’all Qaeda tacticool dope, so it’s a lot tougher to make a strawman against gun owners when there’s one sitting there across from you that you know, like, and respect.
That being said, those occasions also give me pause because I know if we’re falling into that easy line of thinking on guns, we’re probably also doing that sort of strawman on the issues we all agree on too, there’s just nobody present to challenge that view.
Honestly, I feel like it’s so easy, especially in gun crazy states like Texas to run a Democrat who includes enjoying days at the range in their campaign advertisements, that Southern Dems have to be throwing their campaigns on purpose for some reason.
That’s not to say we should be advocating for unlimited magazines and fully auto weapons. But there should be a candidate who is like “Hey, you like your constitutional right to protect yourself? Me too. How about we start funding/investigating the programs that are already supposedly in place to catch red flag purchasers, and find out where the issues are there?”
I feel like a pro-choice, pro-LGBTQ, pro-immigratjon candidate would actually make some headway if they just let go of the gun argument, or at the very least dialed it back substantially.
From what I’m aware, Beto O’Rourke completely dropped gun control as a campaign issue when he ran for governor in Texas. Granted, he was also the biggest advocate for gun control of all the candidates vying for the Democratic nomination for the 2020 election, so I don’t think anyone trusted his reversal
Yes I was a huge Beto Stan. Had his sign in my yard. But even after his reversal, I kept seeing his “HELL YEAH IM TAKING YOUR GUNS” quoted in headlines all over the state 🙄🙄🙄🙄
Of course Abbott was drowning out all the more sensible shit Beto actually said.
Eh, for me, when he said that he lost my support. Ever. For any office.
Sorry, you can drop it from your platform but you already told me where you stand.
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Beto never had a chance of getting elected in Texas on a policy of banning assault rifles. There are certainly policy decisions voters do not forget you made either so he is unelectable there now. Most people in texas support abortion rights, legalizing weed, and gun rights, but they care about the gun rights the most. Beto at this point is just a way for the democrats to raise funds from texas democrats to help themselves in other states.
What you described is literally the Democratic party platform https://democrats.org/where-we-stand/party-platform/healing-the-soul-of-america/
It really isn’t though. That link you provided has a good mix of good ideas and stupid ideas mixed together for gun control. Many of the policies the democrats want to pass have no scientific basis which is a problem.
Agreed. I read through it, and there’s plenty of bits that are ridiculous. Manatory licensing will never happen because the 2nd Amendment is a right, not a privilege. Also, it doesn’t make sense that they’re trying to ban online sales, because those require delivery via an FFL, which means all of them get a background check.
I bet you’re closer in opinion than you think. I think most Dems would settle for universal background checks and no super weapons type rules. The same basic rules we have for other dangerous stuff. You need to buy insurance and you’re responsible if someone uses your gun in a crime. Stuff to encourage careful ownership.
How incredibly presumptive of you to assume.
And of course you’d be wrong about how similar we are on guns, since most of them are part of the crowd that doesn’t own or use guns and therefore feel that because they’ve survived without them just fine that the only obvious and reasonable course of action is that of course we should simply outlaw all guns and just have everyone all over the country turn them in (not buybacks, not voluntary, just everyone come hand over all their guns). And they feel that anyone who doesn’t see how that’s the obvious choice is just crazy.
Also, I don’t even agree with what you’ve laid out here. So you’re off on both sides of your assumption of similarity.
Lol, y’all Qaeda, I’m stealing that one
Yep. I go further left as the years go on, but I’m still pro 2A, though not to the same extent as a lot of republicans.
Should there be controls in place for acquiring and carrying a device that’s only purpose is taking a life? Yep. Absolutely. Especially as you move towards self defense type weapons over tools for sustenance hunting.
That being said, I have no idea how to codify those types of restrictions that maintains the spirit of 2A, while at the same time reducing the vast amount firearm deaths in the US.
There has to be some sort of balance, but I’m not the person to figure it out. Even if I had the gravitas to make changes like that, I don’t have the capabilities to properly handle something like that.
Some balance does exist that not even the right fight for. Violent felons, sexual felons, and sometimes domestic abusers lose their right to bear arms even after they’ve done time served.
It’s also an extra penalty to be armed while drunk (maybe it’s just DUI?) or while trafficking drugs.
Lmao. I’ve never heard that one. What’s the thought process there?
LiberalGunNut™ here! It’s because of quotes like these:
Karl Marx — ‘Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary’
Ida B. Wells advised, that “the Winchester rifle deserved a place of honor in every Black home.”
There are more, can’t think of them ATM.
Just curious, registering as democrat or republican, what does that do?
Note: I’m not U.S. American
In my non-USian understanding, it means you can vote in the primaries (the party-specific elections that choose candidates for the actual election).
American here to confirm that @JoBo is basically right.
Some of the smaller parties have “Open Primaries” (which is to say that you can vote for who gets to represent the party in the real election, regardless of your party registration), but the big two (Democrats and Republicans) have “Closed Primaries” which means that if you want to vote for who will be the Dem/Rep candidate in the main election, you have to be a registered member of that party.
That system is like if I declared myself transwoman just to access the ladys room and see some boob and butt.
Boy, I sure do hate that analogy.
But it is the reason I’m registered with a major party vs the one I actually like; I can always have a voice in the one I like, and I want to be able to have my microscopic amount of influence on a larger party. It’s as much of a “have your cake and eat it too” in the less-than-optimal environment of American Politics as I can get.
There’s a northern politician like that. I think they call him Adam Kinzinger.