Well, China is a “beacon of prosperity” by any objective measure. I’ve not seen anyone there make the other claims. Though they do debunk a lot of the anti-Russia and anti-China propaganda, they back it up with facts.
It’s a beacon of prosperity when there are anti suicide nets at foxcon? Or like the 996? Run by a dictator, also committing genocide isn’t very prosperous. My interactions have been " if it’s western propaganda it’s entirely false, but Chinese or Russian propaganda is entirely true"
800 million people out of poverty is a stretch but if you wanted to make that claim, it’s because the west spent so much money to get goods from China. And the ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs
No, freedom of press is not a measure of prosperity. And I don’t know many western countries that are in a position to point fingers at this point, considering how many journalists they’ve helped kill when they covered a genocide.
They deradicalized a sect that had been trained to destabilize the region by western intelligence, and reintegrated them into society. The facilities don’t even exist anymore, because they were successful.
Compare for instance homelessness in china and the west. Homeownership. Access to healthcare, higher education, public transportation etc. Why do you think it’s not a beacon of prosperity?
China doesn’t have better healthcare than the US, their system is essentailly Obamacare. I’ve asked my aunts in China about it.
Homeownership? I mean that’s just white westerners mismanaging their money. Literally I heard of white dudes be spending their entire paycheck in bars and gambling, while still having unpaid bills. Look at the percentage of Asian Americans owning homes compared to non-Asians Americans, maybe its not a “China vs West” thing, but just Asian people are more responsible with money, I mean, we literally live in the same country as y’all, and as a matter of fact, we even face more discrimination and prejudice, yet somehow, Asian people have higher home ownership. No offense, and not to victim blame, but what are y’all doing? I mean… My family didn’t come from a rich background either, we grew up in poverty.
High education? I mean, depends. I had a Hukou in Taishan (rural) and was denied access to Guangzhou’s (urban) public schools. A permanent 2nd class resident basically. Even the US (prior to 2025, at least) had allowed undocumented immigrants to go to public school, yet China denied their own citizens education if they dare to move to another location even within the country. If we hadn’t moved abroad, we have to eventually go to highschool in Taishan, which has a much lower quality of education than Urban areas.
Public transportation… well you got that part right, I’ll ackowledge that. I remember Guangzhou’s metro being way more modern and cleaner than the US, and I loved the platform safety door protecting people from falling. But that doesn’t exactly matter that much when the job market is fucked. And Hukou system is fucking stupid.
The only way for China to be a “beacon of prosperity” for you is if you have some skills like being a scientist or something like that, or just born into wealth. Otherwise, its not a great place for average people.
If its a beacon of prosperity, why are there so many people leaving? Why is there a consensus amongst the most of the Chinese Diaspora that the west is better?
My parents both grew up in poverty in rural villages, the Hukou system prevented people from leaving Taishan to seek better income, until Deng Xiaoping’s Opening Up and Reforms. Even then, jobs have much longer hours and minimal break time. I never really got to see my parents much, they just left my brother and I at home, just the two of us alone, so we end up fighting a lot. That was what “child care” was. At least until I was even old enough to be enrolled in pre-school and primary school.
Because I was the 2nd child, I didn’t get legal recognition of my existence until my parent paid the government’s demand of a large payment (aka: a "fine) for not having a government permission slip for childbirth, which is like wtf, why is that the government’s bussiness?!?
And because we didn’t have Hukou in Guangzhou, they didn’t let us be in public schools, my parents had to pay for those privately run “school” which have a lower quality of education.
When my family (legally) immigrated to the US, at first, the work wasn’t that much better, but eventually they managed to save up and buy a house, and eventually found better income, much better than any of the work they could find in China.
Of course, western countries has its own problems, such as xenophobia and racism, but for the most part, for most people, including many of my parents friends and relative who left China, life is generally better abroad compared to staying in China.
Depending on your circumstances of course, if you are a scientist, maybe its would be best for you to stay, but most of us aren’t scientists, don’t have much opportunity for income in China.
life is generally better abroad compared to staying in China.
Do you expect this to be true for the coming years?
My impression was that migrant workers don’t earn enough to own a car but that cities are build for that so that overall quality of life, especially when it comes to healthcare services, starts to be better in China.
Without elections you get to have kings and emperors. Unless you go full on direct democracy which actually is becoming more feasible thanks to the Internet I guess?
Reddit and other non-free social media is the result of capitalism, have you considered similar negative effects would occur if the opposite world view was in power?
Reddit is part of the culture war. Lemmy.ml is part of the culture war. Lemmy.world is part of the culture war. Everything is part of the culture war.
I think the strength of a federated social media is that it’s easy to change instance and infighting is a way to have this discussion and come to conclusions. You wouldn’t convince people to leave reddit by posting on lemmy and you wouldn’t turn a tankie into an anarchosyndicalist but you might reach people unaware about what instance they landed on or raise awareness about how to interact with communities and users on .ml. Why have a federated network anyway when you refuse to engage with the concept of federation?
By defeating Tsarism, Nazism and doubling life expectancy, Bolsheviks actually saved tens of millions of leftist lives. In the same sense that you probably (hopefully) support Palestine even if right now they’re not very socially progressive regarding leftism, LGBT and women’s rights, you may understand why a state under the threat of Nazism invading went through serious disturbances.
Why are we fighting culture wars when the real enemy is Reddit and non-free social media?
This infighting seems unproductive and frankly a waste of time.
EDIT: damn
Tell this the powertripping bastards at lemmy.ml, trying to censor everything that is not 100% aligned with their extremist views.
Yeah that’s a rule1 violation and a ban for you
Such as? What extremist views?
Russia and China are beacons of freedom and prosperity, and everyone should emulate them
Well, China is a “beacon of prosperity” by any objective measure. I’ve not seen anyone there make the other claims. Though they do debunk a lot of the anti-Russia and anti-China propaganda, they back it up with facts.
It’s a beacon of prosperity when there are anti suicide nets at foxcon? Or like the 996? Run by a dictator, also committing genocide isn’t very prosperous. My interactions have been " if it’s western propaganda it’s entirely false, but Chinese or Russian propaganda is entirely true"
Lifting 800 million people out of poverty is more than economic system has ever done.
What genocide?
800 million people out of poverty is a stretch but if you wanted to make that claim, it’s because the west spent so much money to get goods from China. And the ethnic cleansing of the Uyghurs
Does that objective measure also happen yo include freedom of press? Because boy i have some news for you…
Revisionist facts? Whose alt is this?
No, freedom of press is not a measure of prosperity. And I don’t know many western countries that are in a position to point fingers at this point, considering how many journalists they’ve helped kill when they covered a genocide.
I don’t see how China is in a position to point fingers considering the treatment of the uyghurs
They deradicalized a sect that had been trained to destabilize the region by western intelligence, and reintegrated them into society. The facilities don’t even exist anymore, because they were successful.
What would your country do in that situation?
Lol. Lmao even.
Compare for instance homelessness in china and the west. Homeownership. Access to healthcare, higher education, public transportation etc. Why do you think it’s not a beacon of prosperity?
China doesn’t have better healthcare than the US, their system is essentailly Obamacare. I’ve asked my aunts in China about it.
Homeownership? I mean that’s just white westerners mismanaging their money. Literally I heard of white dudes be spending their entire paycheck in bars and gambling, while still having unpaid bills. Look at the percentage of Asian Americans owning homes compared to non-Asians Americans, maybe its not a “China vs West” thing, but just Asian people are more responsible with money, I mean, we literally live in the same country as y’all, and as a matter of fact, we even face more discrimination and prejudice, yet somehow, Asian people have higher home ownership. No offense, and not to victim blame, but what are y’all doing? I mean… My family didn’t come from a rich background either, we grew up in poverty.
High education? I mean, depends. I had a Hukou in Taishan (rural) and was denied access to Guangzhou’s (urban) public schools. A permanent 2nd class resident basically. Even the US (prior to 2025, at least) had allowed undocumented immigrants to go to public school, yet China denied their own citizens education if they dare to move to another location even within the country. If we hadn’t moved abroad, we have to eventually go to highschool in Taishan, which has a much lower quality of education than Urban areas.
Public transportation… well you got that part right, I’ll ackowledge that. I remember Guangzhou’s metro being way more modern and cleaner than the US, and I loved the platform safety door protecting people from falling. But that doesn’t exactly matter that much when the job market is fucked. And Hukou system is fucking stupid.
The only way for China to be a “beacon of prosperity” for you is if you have some skills like being a scientist or something like that, or just born into wealth. Otherwise, its not a great place for average people.
They literally invented a diabetes cure, and the US is banning it to maintain insulin profits. They win healthcare.
I don’t see how corporations being allowed to buy up 1/3rd or US housing inventory is any indicator of how people manage their money.
Please, don’t be ridiculous. Look at the expenditure per capita on healthcare in China vs in the USA.
The rest of your comment is pure copium, blaming working class citizens for the problems of capitalism.
What would you consider a beacon of prosperity then?
If its a beacon of prosperity, why are there so many people leaving? Why is there a consensus amongst the most of the Chinese Diaspora that the west is better?
(Rhetorical question, don’t bother answering)
Forbes about the topic:
Have you seen the non-.ml posts on lemmy about the unjust economy and the billionaires?
Arguing that billionaires have a better life in the west is not the flex you think it is.
My parents both grew up in poverty in rural villages, the Hukou system prevented people from leaving Taishan to seek better income, until Deng Xiaoping’s Opening Up and Reforms. Even then, jobs have much longer hours and minimal break time. I never really got to see my parents much, they just left my brother and I at home, just the two of us alone, so we end up fighting a lot. That was what “child care” was. At least until I was even old enough to be enrolled in pre-school and primary school.
Because I was the 2nd child, I didn’t get legal recognition of my existence until my parent paid the government’s demand of a large payment (aka: a "fine) for not having a government permission slip for childbirth, which is like wtf, why is that the government’s bussiness?!?
And because we didn’t have Hukou in Guangzhou, they didn’t let us be in public schools, my parents had to pay for those privately run “school” which have a lower quality of education.
When my family (legally) immigrated to the US, at first, the work wasn’t that much better, but eventually they managed to save up and buy a house, and eventually found better income, much better than any of the work they could find in China.
Of course, western countries has its own problems, such as xenophobia and racism, but for the most part, for most people, including many of my parents friends and relative who left China, life is generally better abroad compared to staying in China.
Depending on your circumstances of course, if you are a scientist, maybe its would be best for you to stay, but most of us aren’t scientists, don’t have much opportunity for income in China.
Do you expect this to be true for the coming years?
My impression was that migrant workers don’t earn enough to own a car but that cities are build for that so that overall quality of life, especially when it comes to healthcare services, starts to be better in China.
You are talking about China 30+ years ago, your point is absolutely moot.
What is extremist about that?
Without elections you get to have kings and emperors. Unless you go full on direct democracy which actually is becoming more feasible thanks to the Internet I guess?
Yep. We need direct democracy, using an auditable digital liquid democracy platform.
Yearning for a dictatorship is generally considered an extreme opinion.
I yearn for direct democracy and self-rule.
This is Lemmy, nothing here is significant enough to be part of a true culture war.
Also, this community is for memes so maybe don’t take it too seriously either
I’m not going to say it
Notgonnasayit
JUDEAN PEOPLE’S FRONT!!
There, I said it
My dude this is the Peoples Front of Judea territory
How do you feel about my right as a man to become pregnant?
It’s like your right to fly.
We’re fighting the same people — fascists. These ones are just cosplaying as leftists
as opposed to what pressing matters the community has on our plate?
Reddit and other non-free social media is the result of capitalism, have you considered similar negative effects would occur if the opposite world view was in power?
Reddit is part of the culture war. Lemmy.ml is part of the culture war. Lemmy.world is part of the culture war. Everything is part of the culture war.
The real enemy is authoritarianists.
I think the strength of a federated social media is that it’s easy to change instance and infighting is a way to have this discussion and come to conclusions. You wouldn’t convince people to leave reddit by posting on lemmy and you wouldn’t turn a tankie into an anarchosyndicalist but you might reach people unaware about what instance they landed on or raise awareness about how to interact with communities and users on .ml. Why have a federated network anyway when you refuse to engage with the concept of federation?
dude it’s internet slap fighting, everything that happens here is on such a small scale that it’s barely a culture skirmish
Tankies are authoritarians, they aren’t allies. Historically they’re the ones killing leftists as soon as they gain power.
By defeating Tsarism, Nazism and doubling life expectancy, Bolsheviks actually saved tens of millions of leftist lives. In the same sense that you probably (hopefully) support Palestine even if right now they’re not very socially progressive regarding leftism, LGBT and women’s rights, you may understand why a state under the threat of Nazism invading went through serious disturbances.