Joe Biden worries that the “extreme” US supreme court, dominated by rightwing justices, cannot be relied upon to uphold the rule of law.
“I worry,” the president told ProPublica in interview published on Sunday. “Because I know that if the other team, the Maga Republicans, win, they don’t want to uphold the rule of law.”
“Maga” is shorthand for “Make America great again”, Donald Trump’s campaign slogan. Trump faces 91 criminal charges and assorted civil threats but nonetheless dominates Republican polling for the nomination to face Biden in a presidential rematch next year.
In four years in the White House, Trump nominated and saw installed three conservative justices, tilting the court 6-3 to the right. That court has delivered significant victories for conservatives, including the removal of the right to abortion and major rulings on gun control, affirmative action and other issues.
The new court term, which starts on Tuesday, could see further such rulings on matters including government environmental and financial regulation.
Joe Biden worries that the “extreme” US supreme court, dominated by rightwing justices, cannot be relied upon to uphold the rule of law.
If he really worries about that, and is not just scaring people to vote for him, then he has a responsibility to enlarge the court.
I’d argue this should have been the immediate response to Mitch McConnell blocking nominees half a term away from an election, but if the court can’t uphold the rule of law, it should be fixed (and expansion seems like the obvious solution) or replaced.
The procedural question on this one is whether he could shrink the court to boot say… Thomas, then expand it again to replace him with someone less obviously corrupt. Republicans fail to confirm a replacement? We’ll shrink the court a little more. Obviously, this won’t happen, but I’m interested to know if it’s possible.
Shrinking it (through established legal channels) is impeachment and removal which has a high bar. Enlarging it is just passing a law, which is only hard because the senate has a policy (not a law) to effectively not pass laws without supermajorities. The latter could be done with a simple majority of politicians with a spine.
I’d argue this should have been the immediate response to Mitch McConnell blocking nominees half a term away from an election
Honestly I feel like that needed a civil war level response, that really should not have been allowed/normalized, regardless of which party initiated the block.
whether he could shrink the court to boot say… Thomas, then expand it again to replace him
I couldn’t agree to that, that’s way too manipulative and dishonors the previous selections from previous presidents.
I would expect him to just expand the court by two seats, if he was going to try to do something along these lines.
dishonors the previous selections from previous presidents.
To what degree should prior selections be honored/respected if the presidents in question won under questionable circumstances, e.g. George W. Bush’s election in 2000 and the stopping of the Florida recount, or Donald J. Trump’s election in 2016 after his call for foreign interference, alongside James Comey reopening the investigation into Hillary Clinton just before the election?
Don’t forget Reagan/Carter. Reagan manufactured the October Surprise, making a deal with terrorists to prolonging a hostage situation in Iran, just to tank Carter in the polls.
Yeah, the most scandal-ridden judge was appointed under H.W. Bush. They’re not a particularly worthy bunch even aside from shenanigans.
To what degree should prior selections be honored/respected if the presidents in question won under questionable circumstances
It would depend on the circumstances, but it would have to be very unique and extreme circumstances. The goal would be to avoid a Tit for Tat downward spiral to Civil War.
George W. Bush’s election in 2000 and the stopping of the Florida recount,
I believe that the mob that raided the office should not have allowed the vote counting to have been stopped. IMO it gave a green light to whomever set that up to go forward and do something along the lines of January 6th.
Having said that, no I wouldn’t for this situation. Almost, but no.
or Donald J. Trump’s election in 2016 after his call for foreign interference, alongside James Comey reopening the investigation into Hillary Clinton just before the election?
No. Simple political interference wouldn’t be enough, we’re talking about extreme circumstances only.
My preference would be to simply enlarge the court by a few seats, nominate some additional candidates that exceed the number of available seats by 2 or 3, and then hold some sort of Survivor-like competition to see who captures the seats. I would also accept a Hunger Games style competition for this first new court session.
High-level politics should involve physical challenges. Put the judge chairs up a tall ladder and across a balance beam and we won’t see so many justices dying on the bench. At least from old age rather than balance-beam accidents.
How?
Are you under the assumption Joe Biden is some sort of wizard?
The supreme court is supposed to be based on certain numbers, when those numbers increased the SC could have been increased, but hasn’t been.
Basically all it would take is for the president to decide “hey this court is supposed to be bigger, because the rules it wrote for itself say so” and sign a few things and boom. Increased court size.
What fucking coloring book did you read that in
LOL
What? Where did you find executive branch authority to regulate the Supreme Court?
Even if they did, how would a president appoint justices without Congress?
I don’t know the details, from what I understand FDR was contemplating the same thing, so it does seem like the power to do this is an electoral branch power and not in the legislative branch.
But I honestly don’t know the details so I could be wrong, its just something I heard of before.
Congress can pass a law increasing the number of justices. The current law setting it at nine justices was passed in 1869. Congress is inept right now.
“so it does seem like the power to do this is electoral branch power and not in the legislative branch”
Quite poor evidence for your conclusion. FDR tried to pass legislation to expand the SCOTUS, and was interpreted as trying to manipulate the court by his own party, which is why it was blocked.
Court expansion has always been done by Congress, it’s interpreted as an extension of it’s power to create courts.
Quite poor evidence for your conclusion. FDR tried to pass legislation to expand the SCOTUS, and was interpreted as trying to manipulate the court by his own party, which is why it was blocked.
It was blocked after the judges flipped and started approving his programs. It was expected to pass up until that point.
Quite poor evidence for your conclusion. FDR tried to pass legislation to expand the SCOTUS, and was interpreted as trying to manipulate the court by his own party, which is why it was blocked.
Fair enough. Just a friendly reminder…
But I honestly don’t know the details so I could be wrong, its just something I heard of before.
It was an off-the-cuff comment and I mentioned in the comment I could be wrong and that I was not certain, so, /shrug.
Other than political gain for one team or the other, what is the argument for expanding the supreme Court?
To correct for the explicitly political gain one team is solely interested in for their own authoritarian redefinition of established precedent that also had their nominees lie their way into their SC positions at the expense of the Constitution and our freedoms. That’s the argument.
you don’t think by expanding the court the “other side” isn’t just doing the same exact thing you just described? so where does it stop?
The problem is that we’re at a point where Republicans are not hesitating to lie, cheat, and steal their way to power. They have demonstrated quite clearly that they no longer have an interest in playing fair.
We need Democrats who aren’t afraid to fight back or we’ll lose our Democracy in America and eventually fall to fascism.
There may not be a good ending here, but it’s time to draw a line in the sand.
It’s a sad state when people actually believe one party has a better moral compass than the other. The reality is one party lies better than the other, but it’s two sides of the same coin. I blame gullible people that can’t do anything but parrot what the media tells them to. Sadly, that’s the majority of society.
Dude… both sides are absolutely not the same. Just look at the policies each side is trying to implement. On one hand, you’ve got Democrats trying to do things like forgive student debt and raise the minimum wage. On the other, you’ve got Republicans focusing almost solely on a culture war they’ve started just because they hate people who are different than they are.
I could go on and on with examples here. While it’s true that people parrot things they’re told to believe by the media (like pretty much everyone who watches Fox and actually believes it’s real news).
Our current Republican party has zero plans to actually help anyone they supposedly represent. It’s insane to me that anyone could look at what they’re doing and think it’s somehow beneficial to society…but I guess that’s because I don’t think of hurting people as a way to make my own life better.
If you look at the history of people who were put up for nomination as a Supreme Court member, you’ll see that what you said is not true.
The persons being submitted have a distinct qualification for fairness that one side puts up, versus the other.
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There’s the problem. You think one party is inherently bad and one is inherently good. That’s completely an idiotic take. But you’re too stupid to see that.
Probably stops at civil war.
What options are there to fix this active extremist right wing slow motion coup that is trying to overthrow our Constitution by destroying established legal precedent?
This is not a one side versus the other political sport contest, this is far beyond any such sophomoric simpleton bullshit.
I am concerned about the obvious concerning things as well. Y’all should make me your leader.
Can you figure out how to get off a stage though…
I love completely unaware comments like this. President stable genius wasn’t really all that stable nor all that much of a genius. Dude bragged about memorizing 5 words in a TV interview.
If you’re willing to mention one as a disqualifying factor, you should really take a long hard look at the other candidate through the same lens.
Also … to be fair… my capability to walk on a stage has no bearing on my ability to be president. FDR used a wheel chair and had ramps installed in the White House. I find it terrible that we disparage our presidents based on their physical abilities.
I would put more stock in whether they can string together a cogent argument on a debate, or whether they can actually put together a sentence with correct punctuation, spelling, and grammar…
Ironically, Biden has been shying away from debates…
Honestly, I don’t know why anyone would want to be president after age 70. It just seems like too much stress, too much work. When I am 70 I want either be working for myself so that I can determine my hours, or just full on retired enjoying some piece and quiet.
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So your argument is literally “both sides”… I thought both siding was frowned upon
It’s more a “don’t throw stones if you live in a glass house” thing, but fair enough.
I don’t understand this whataboutism the US has going on. Trump was a megalomaniac and didn’t give a shit about the country. Biden is a demented old man and doesn’t give a shit about the country.
Democrats and republicans have chosen horrible leaders this past decade. Can’t you see it’s harming you all? Why are you acting like this is a sports team you’ll die following?
I think one thing that some people seem to miss is that liberal voters didn’t necessarily vote for Biden, they simply voted against Trump.
You’re absolutely right in your assessment. Our system is stacked against us. I wish we had a system that could support multiple parties. But all we have to choose from is one extreme or the other. I’m not exactly pleased with it.
And if you want to see what happens when a politician breaks ranks to get things done, look no farther than McCarthy getting ousted as speaker of the house. I don’t like the guy at all but he did the right thing this one time by getting bipartisan support to get a funding bill passed in order to avoid a government shut down. His party crucified him for it. So yeah, we are fucked.
Then maybe he should have packed the court with some good judges
Would have had to nuke the filibuster to make it where they could pack the court. That required yes votes from all Democratic senators (only because not a single fucking Republican would vote for it), and Manchin and Sinema refused to do it.
Nothing Biden could have done. We needed more Democrats in Senate seats. That’s the game though. Republicans do their best to make us feel like voting doesn’t matter, then we don’t turn up - making it easier for Republicans to say the government doesn’t work.
Nothing Biden could have done.
He could have attacked them. Called on their constituents to protest outside their offices. Politics is more than just filing papers and casting votes.
Machin’s constituents are heavily Red.
Manchin’s constituents are heavily red, but his voters are mostly blue.
How do you figure? Biden received 29.69% of the vote in 2020 vs 68.62%.
Joe Manchin won his last election with 49.6% of the vote. Presumably Biden voters all vote for him. 29.7% is more than half of 49.6%.
Ok, but what’s your point?
It’s just that easy ™️
I don’t think he’s exactly even capable of doing so. SCOTUS judges have to retire or die, and then vacant seats have to get confirmed by the Senate, and no self-respecting Republican Supreme Court justice would die while in office. Expanding the number of justices is also extremely unlikely to happen, and also, relevantly, not really in Joe’s hands.
The notable historical threat to pack the courts previously (which succeeded in moderating the court without packing) was done by a president. They don’t have unilateral authority, but they are the leader of the party. Stuff doesn’t happen unless leaders lead.
When has Joe Biden had the opportunity to replace a ring wing judge?
I’m talking about Roosevelt as a model for Biden threatening to pack the court. This reply doesn’t make sense.
Those threats only worked because the party was sane. These days we have nothing more the terrorists calling themselves the gop.
What? There were like 16 Senate Republicans total in Roosevelt’s time. It had nothing to do with sane Republicans coming around. The threats worked because Roosevelt and his policies were incredibly popular and if the court didn’t stop blocking them the court packing bill likely would have passed.
I’m saying the opposing party. And yes fdr used the bully pulpit well. But there were still rational people in office. Today we have a party that thinks the election was stolen because… Reasons.
There’s no limit to how many supreme Court justices can be active at a time. Biden could have nominated more. Getting them approved is the hard part.
Then you end up with the next president doing it again. We don’t need that race today.
So we just give up without trying?
Not give up. Seeing a single solution as bad doesn’t mean we give up.
and also, relevantly, not really in Joe’s hands.
That didn’t stop FDR from trying and indirectly succeeding.
At least they’re finally starting to get a clue that “They go low, we go high” is bullshit
Damn, did he just now notice this?
To me, as a non-American, the most baffling thing is that everyone in the States just assumes, and accepts, that these appointed justices are going to rule according to some political bias.
That’s not the way it works in the rest of the free world. Judges are, by definition, trusted to be impartial interpreters of the law/constitution. That’s their role.
I live in Canada, and I’m vaguely familiar with some of the names of our Supreme Court justices, but I certainly don’t know their political leanings, nor do I care. Nor does any Canadian I know. That’s the way it’s supposed to be.
So as far as I can see, the problem isn’t that SCOTUS is stacked with Republicans, nor that it can be. The problem is that everyone seems to assume that this is the way it should be.
No, we don’t. Along with Citizens United, EVERY American with a brain and open eyes is aware these are the absolute most important problems, and they lead to endgame checkmate authoritarianism.
And yet I never see any mention of this anywhere. Even here, it seems that Biden is more concerned about whether the court can administer justice because it is so much out of balance. No mention, though, that the “balance” shouldn’t even be a factor.
SCOTUS justices are appointed for life because it’s supposed to put them above political considerations. No politician can influence them by threatening removal. Yet, there you are, SCOTUS is just as political as the other two branches.
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I don’t know what i hate more, being subjected to increasingly authoritarian christofascist rule in my country or having some punk looking down his nose at me and saying it’s my own fault.
Pssssh.
Tell you what. When it happens to you, why don’t you tell me what you hate more.
(Fuggen punks think theyre fighting ready just cuz they’ve never been tested, geez almighty.)
Yeah… shocking… victim blaming coming from tough guys
Victim blaming and undeserved arrogance come from the same type of folks, huh? The best (only good) part of interacting with these losers is the fact we’re on a public forum. At least then there are others to witness the interaction and see how dumb they look. I can only hope
Oh shit… love the ratm and/or the boss reference! Very different music, very similar representation :)
It’s RATM and steinbeck, since the reference lead me to read the book and afterwards led me to many more truths. Thanks man! I am happy when people get the ref.
You fuck w Tortilla Flat? My favorite by far.
Oh my God tortilla flat is fucking brilliant. I thought it trite in the first couple chapters but i stuck it out and was proven a fool. By the end i loved every one of those guys and now i need to read it again
What do you think RATM would think about these “don’t criticize me for doing nothing” posts?
Tom and zach would both be embarrassed for you.
Firstly for your cowardly sock-puppetry, secondly for not knowing that those lyrics reference an important steinbeck character.
But cone. You have one more, right? One more name you use to pump upboats in your silly existence? Hurry and bring that one out to be clever as well
The irony of you calling someone cowardly. You didn’t name your account “Tom Joad”, you named it in reference to the song, which is explicitly a social protest song from people willing to actually do something rather than complain about being shamed. This isn’t quite Paul Ryan loving Rage while being the actual machine, but what a monumental lack of introspection.
“Where there’s a fight 'gainst the blood and hatred in the air, look for me, mom, I’ll be there.”
I don’t know what i hate more, being subjected to increasingly authoritarian christofascist rule in my country or having some punk looking down his nose at me and saying it’s my own fault.
Clearly Tom and Zach would echo this sentiment. Authoritarianism or someone looking down their nose at your inaction, who’s to say which is worse?
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Fuck you
;)
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Oh, you were agreeing with the punk? Geez i am surprised. I wonder if it matters to you that you wasted my time just now?
Probably not, huh? It’s kinda you’re thing, huh? Being clever?
Americans largely haven’t had much of a choice. In states where the laws are decent and political corruption isn’t heavily entrenched, things are alright and the system isn’t totally broken. But in places where it has? There’s less and less ability to vote in more reasonable laws.
The problems are systemic. The same states have shitty education systems, mass voter disenfranchisement of prisoners and anyone else they can justify taking the vote from, extensive gerrymandering, and every other form of corruption and political inefficiency. The major population centers take a very different approach, but they have to compete with these backward and broken states through an electoral system that skews the results in their favor.
Trying to take direct action outside of the official political framework is also problematic. In Europe you’ve got the benefit of an extremely high population density and a relatively small area regardless of which country you’re in. In the US everything is extremely spread out. The result is that protest is often not terribly effective. You might be able to shut down a couple of streets, but there’s no way you’re disturbing commerce for more than a single metropolitan area (of which there are many) at a time. It’s the same reason mass public transit runs into issues: we’re way too spread out for strategies that require high and comparatively uniform population density.
That doesn’t mean there’s no answer, but it does mean we’re going to have to get a little more creative.
People take for granted what made Occupy special. We all rally around the fact that folks that normally wouldn’t recognize they’re all the 99% came together. But the real win was that it was everywhere all at once all the time.
Right, but compare the effort to the results. People were bussing in from all over the country, but like what actually changed?
Same thing with the BLM protests. The largest protest movement in American history and… nothing changed. COVID kills a million plus Americans and all that changed is OSHA was banned from enforcing worker safety measures. No extra disease tracking, no countrywide efforts to improve air quality. We’re stuck in a quagmire where leaders just wait out problems rather than needing to address them.
No we definitely don’t enjoy this, it’s the same reason we all love to say “eat the rich” and “it’s guillotine time” and then do absofuckinglutley nothing about it. No one wants to be the one to start something absolutely crazy, we all deep down believe that we can somehow fix this within the system as opposed to throwing Molotovs. :/
It sounds like that belief is worth having a look at again.
Sounds like you don’t have any real-life experience with the American political system.
Yeah, we shouldn’t have been walking outside wearing that…
Largest protests in history (at least at the time) were against invading Iraq in the lead-up to the war. Democrats protest, but Republicans VOTE. That’s why they run everything from a minority position.
No, they gerrymander. They lose on popular vote all the time.
So we’re going to protest our way around gerrymandering now?
It’s gerrymandered because people voted in 6he reps who gerrymandered everything. Things didn’t get gerrymandered by the GOP protesting for more gerrymandering.
First of all, the Overton Window in America is skewed heavily right. So our centrist Democratic leaders are center right, our Republicans are what most countries would call regressive, extremist, authoritarian right wing, or even fascists.
See, the problem is rightwing extremism has been on a campaign since the civil rights era to take control of the country and undo the progress made since the 1960s.
They installed right wing media. They cut education and tampered with curricula. They gerrymandered. They instituted voter suppression. Their strategy culminated in the Federalist Society influencing the selection of Gorsuch and installation of right wing judges during the Trump administration.
The thing you have to know if you ever want to try and stop extremist, authoritarian, right wing regressives is that they do not hold the same ideals and morals as you and I. They do not play from the same playbook or follow the same rulebook.
They believe that “might makes right,” that any ends justify the means, that rules are enacted to protect them and their in group and punish their selected out group. They believe in many cases that their cause is justified by God.
And so any justice who adheres to such zealous principles will see no issue with finding a way to rule in the favor of their side. They may even go so far as to rule with weak or minimal justification. They will be a lot less likely to rule in an unbiased fashion.
My current opinion is that, so far, we have only seen rulings that fall into the “finding a way” category.
I think these justices will incrementally push the envelope on what they can get away with over the upcoming decades.
“I think these justices will incrementally push the envelope on what they can get away with over the upcoming decades.”
I feel like we have already turned the corner of openly ruling along party lines as well as unrepentant corruption.
I think it will get worse and worse until… well I don’t know what will turn it around or when.
Agreed. I forgot to end my post with “but I fear that it can get so much worse before anything is done.”
I mean, as crappy as the court has been and all the confidence they’ve lost, they have essentially just cemented the role of Supreme Court justice as a politician instead of some honored impartial high quality person who stays above it all.
So they have blatantly pushed the Republican agenda, including things like Roe. But they could do so much more damage still.
I doubt the Republican justices stay alive for much longer with the growing realization that political assassinations easily solve issues with the supreme court. It’s talked in hush tones a lot online because people act as if talking about the thing means you’re inviting it.
Tbh I’m genuinely surprised suicidal people on the left haven’t already taken one out. I was betting on it to happen shortly after Biden took presidency. It’s going to happen eventually if they keep ruling like shit. Revolutions are started by such political stunts.
Although I used to think all the crazy school shooters were eventually going to be lefties as well. Turns out they at least try to get medicated and fix themselves. Righties just go out murdering for apeshit reasons lol. Still, I know way more people on the left in serious depression and wanting to commit suicide. With the amount of fame MSM gives suicidal murderers… like before, I’m surprised it hasn’t already happened.
This patently false, compared to the world as a whole the US is quite liberal. Only in certain aspects, compared to certain European countries is the US “right-wing”. US for instance has way more liberal freedom of speech and religion than most countries. How many European countries have a state religion?
That’s not the way it works in the rest of the free world. Judges are, by definition, trusted to be impartial interpreters of the law/constitution. That’s their role.
The problem is that these judges are appointed through a political process, as about any government worker apparently is. This way you get a hyper politicized country, where even the job of librarian is no longer just a job, but an oppointment that should be strictly controlled.
It’s absolutely baffling.
Yes. The supreme court is a political tool just like every other branch of government.
They are not impartial. They all have agendas.
I think Canada may not have this issue because there aren’t as many different cultures in Canada competing for dominance.
Even though your ruling class wants to extend its reach as much as possible, they acknowledge they’re still ruling over Canadians.
In the US, it’s “city people ruling over country” or “whites ruling over blacks” or “christians ruling over everything.” This means it’s acceptable and even encouraged for one group to abuse another.
This creates an “us vs. them” mentality because it really is us vs. them.
Your parliament just gave a nazi a standing ovation.
COLOUR ME SHOCKED
Can they write this article without Biden…?
I mean, the only thing happening here is Biden worrying, so, no, I don’t think they could. It’s not like they could write a news story talking about steps Biden has taken to deal with this problem, there aren’t that many ways to say “nothing.”
I too would wish he’d expand the court as he suggested he would on the campaign trail, but unfortunately the game of politics is such that actually doing it would become the biggest topic ever, and not in a good way. It would be super unpopular with the moderates, and it would allow republicans the perfect opportunity to accuse Biden of being anti-democracy, which of course they would love an excuse to do because it would distract from the fact that they actually want to destroy democracy. Maybe, and this is a big maybe, he’ll consider it in a second term when he no longer has to worry about re-election, but that hope always seems to be a pipe dream.
It would be super unpopular with the moderates
Gay marriage was super unpopular with moderates, until people made efforts to change that. No one in the country cared about drag queens until the conservatives made a concerted effort to make it a political issue. The political whims of the country are changeable, if you’re willing to try to change them.
Too many people look at politics as the job of reading an opinion poll and then staying within a rigid bound of the status quo rather than as leaders who should be influencing the public to adopt better policies. This continual worry about moderates’ beliefs as if they’re not the least ideological people in the nation is a flawed approach to politics that just puts up barriers and excuses for doing anything.
Okay, but “The Extreme Court” does sound a lot cooler.
He’s not alone
I mean, if this is the way the executive branch is talking about the judicial branch, both of them should be forced to resign and be replaced with other people.
How that is, I have no clue, but you can’t run a country with distrust like this.
Both sides paint the other as the enemy of democracy and freedom.
That’s just what happens when you have two authoritarian parties. They just lob Accusation-In-a-Mirror attacks at each other.
And proceeds to do fuck all about it! Awesome.
If team magma wins, what will the water Pokemon do??
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