• hh93@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    104
    arrow-down
    22
    ·
    1 year ago

    It is a monopoly - they just don’t abuse it as much against their audience.

    For developers it’s either take their 30% deal or just don’t sell your game because a lot of people only use steam.

    Not even Cyberpunk or the Witcher could sell more on gog than on steam even though you knew that there the developers got 100% of the money spent. Gwent standalone flopped so hard on GOG that it had to be rereleased with limited features on steam and sold more there

    People are just fundamentally lazy so it totally is a problem that you have one store with such a massive market share even if it’s very convenient for the end-user they can completely exploit their position against publishers.

    Sure EPICs way of making games exclusive to their store is not elegant but without that no-one would choose that store over steam

    • Molecular0079@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      58
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      1 year ago

      I am not sure if it’s just people being lazy. Steam legitimately is a good gaming platform. It just has so many features that really bring the PC platform to the level of consoles in terms of UX. Social features, discussion boards, reviews, matchmaking, chat, broadcasting, remote streaming, all this alongside a kickass store. That’s why Valve could roll out something like Steam OS and not have it feel woefully inadequate compared to what consoles offer.

      • Bread@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        4
        arrow-down
        1
        ·
        1 year ago

        Don’t forget notes for games, steam workshop, and for those of us open source enthusiasts, making easy/reliable gaming on Linux. It has never been so good being a Linux gamer.

    • jikel@lemm.ee
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      21
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Tell me a game store that supports Linux out of the box (not messing with wine stuff or lutris)

    • HollowNotion@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      19
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      This is partially on these companies for failing to provide an equal experience to Steam on their platform. I bought Witcher III in GoG to support the devs, and my reward was a lost save by the time the DLCs came out, because their client didn’t have cloud saves. So guess where I bought their stuff from there on? Sure, they added these features later but for some people the damage is already done.

    • P03 Locke@lemmy.dbzer0.com
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      12
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      1 year ago

      It’s a monopoly, but it’s one that a big company like EA or Epic Games can defeat. But, they have to actually put in the work and effort to present an experience that isn’t an enshittified version of Steam.

      So far, none of them are willing to put in the time, so they don’t get the prize.

    • teolan@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Not even Cyberpunk or the Witcher could sell more on gog than on steam even though you knew that there the developers got 100% of the money spent.

      Most gamers don’t know and/or don’t care, so they will take the least resistance path, which is Steam.

      Steam has a “most favoured nation clause” which prevents companies from actually selling for cheaper on other platform. This is how steam maintains its monopoly. If it were possible for CD Projekt Red to sell it cheaper outside of steam it would force steam to actually charge developers less.

      Edit: see below, it’s actually not that clear.

      • Chailles@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        10
        ·
        1 year ago

        They could sell for cheaper, they just can’t sell Steam Keys specifically for cheaper than what’s on Steam itself. Which makes sense honestly, you’re literally using their service for both presence and distribution.

        • teolan@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          1 year ago

          Looking at steam’s own policies, this is true for steam keys, but there is an an going lawsuit that claims steam also makes this apply to non steam-enabled games: https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2021/07/valve-issues-scathing-reply-over-the-facts-behind-a-steam-antitrust-case/

          But looking mosre closely than I did previously this is based on:

          1. An contract that is apparently not public
          2. A 1 time example that Valve denies

          So I don’t really know, but if what valve says is true (which looks like it is), then I don’t see any monopoly abuse indeed.

          They do have a monopoly, but it’s in large part for providing a better service. As a Linux user, I prefer Valve 100% over Epic that buys Rocket league and discontinues linux support. I do prefer Itch and GOG for the possibility of no-DRM games, but I’ve got to say it’s overall a worse experience (no auto updates, no social features etc…)

          I made my initial comment after watching: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOEG5qmMQas which suggested that Steam applied the MFN for non steam - enabled games too, but was done prior to Valve’s response.

          • Chailles@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            3
            ·
            edit-2
            1 year ago

            For the price parity thing, there’s the game Tales of Maj’Eyal that is $6.99 USD on Steam but is free on their website te4.org. Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead is an open source project, but is on Steam for $19.99 USD. Caves of Qud is actually on sale now on GOG, but the Itch.io and Steam version aren’t. Sure, these may just be because traditional roguelikes don’t garner that much attention, but they are cases nonetheless that show otherwise.

            The lack of auto-updates can sometimes be good. StarSector updated relatively recently and if they actually updated automatically (even if they offered an option to disable it, they update so infrequently, I’d probably have neglected it), my save and all my mods for it would just break, or worse break silentl until it was too late.

            • teolan@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Thinking about it there are also multiple FLOSS games that are free on GitHub/Linux repos but paid on Steam. For example Mindustry and Pixel dungeon.

          • pkpenguin@lemmy.world
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            This is still easily verifiably untrue in practice. Go to isthereanydeal and you’ll see verified, approved Steam key retailers running sales for under the Steam price on hundreds of games literally every day. Humble offers a global discount on all keys in their store if you’re s subscriber, undercutting virtually every Steam page. That’s not to mention the bundles they sell which regularly cut hundreds of dollars of keys down to a few bucks.

            • teolan@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              The steam documentation mentions for keys that while it is OK to run sales on different platforms at different times, the steam store must have similar sales within a reasonable time period, and he base price must not be higher on steam.

    • aard@kyu.de
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      7
      arrow-down
      3
      ·
      edit-2
      1 year ago

      Many years ago I bought some old DOS game where Linux runtimes using the original files exists on GOG. What I expected was a disk image or a zip containing the files - what I got was some exe containing the files. Why would I ever try to buy something from someone fucking up something that simple again?

      I might buy some indie games from a developer directly - but with a middleman steam is the only option.

      • criticalimpact@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        2
        ·
        1 year ago

        That’s not a steam issue, that’s a developer/publisher issue Plenty of old Scumm based games work by just pointing scummvm at the game directory

    • asexualchangeling@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      3
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      1 year ago

      Sure EPICs way of making games exclusive to their store is not elegant but without that no-one would choose that store over steam

      Personally Epic doing this is one of the reasons I still refuse to give epic my card details

      • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        6
        ·
        1 year ago

        They account for about 75% of game sales on PC from what I’m finding, it’s a “virtual monopoly”, i.e. they have enough reach to control the market even if they have competitors.

        • woelkchen@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          6
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          1 year ago

          75% of the units sold or 75% of the overall revemue. Given that the most successful PC games aren’t even on Steam, the latter seems unlikely to me. Roblox alone is a sustained revenue stream in insanely high numbers.

          Do they block the competition in any way? They aren’t the stewards of Windows. Epic buys exclusive rights to games. Does Valve do the same? On Steam Deck, there’s even an entire independent app store (Discover with Flathub) enabled right out of the box. That’s how the community made Minecraft and Heroic Game Launcher available. Official EGS, GamePass, and GOG launchers could be made available via Flathub but MS etc. choose not to.

          • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            1
            arrow-down
            7
            ·
            1 year ago

            They have their own unethical business practice they’re getting sued for (preventing sales at a lower price on competing platforms) and just because you agree with what they do now doesn’t mean it’s not a risk to have such a behemoth in the market, Gaben is nice now, it just needs him changing his mind or retiring/dying and shit could hit the fan real quick.

            • woelkchen@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              It’s not about Valve or Newell being nice or not, it’s about whether Valve has a monopoly and the EU just recently looked at digital markets closely and determined that Valve is not a gatekeeper.

              • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                5
                ·
                edit-2
                1 year ago

                Because of the way they act at the moment, it doesn’t mean that they’re not in a monopoly position.

                Turns out it’s simply because the EU didn’t even study their case because the PC gaming market is too small to bother 🤡

                • woelkchen@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  Well, the EU made a list of monopolists in digital markets and decided that Valve is not one of them and that has nothing to do with current behavior.

                  • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    4
                    ·
                    edit-2
                    1 year ago

                    Find me a source confirming that they actually studied Steam’s position in their market. They have specific criterias, including financial and user ones, and Steam doesn’t meet them… oopsy!

            • stillwater@lemm.ee
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              1
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              1 year ago

              They have their own unethical business practice they’re getting sued for (preventing sales at a lower price on competing platforms)

              Who’s suing them for something so boilerplate? This isn’t that stupid frivolous lawsuit from Wolfire you’re referring to, is it?

              • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                1
                ·
                1 year ago

                Frivolous? The judge has accepted new evidence and the lawsuit has been allowed to proceed.

        • DLSchichtl@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          2
          arrow-down
          3
          ·
          1 year ago

          Nintendo accounts for 100% of games on the Switch. Microsoft with the Xbox. Heck, even Sony. And people making games for PC don’t have to ask Valve’s permission.

          Shit. Bestselling PC game of all time. Minecraft. Not available on Steam.

          • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            1 year ago

            Nintendo is compared to other console manufacturers.

            Microsoft is considered to be in a position of monopoly in the OS market, yet they’re not the ones building the PC itself.

            Holy fuck did I just enter a freaking asylum or something?

      • Phil_in_here@lemmy.ca
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        1 year ago

        Yeah, to say a successful business is a monopoly because it is far reaching is absurd.

        Call me when Good-Old-Epic-Steam launches.

        • rambaroo@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          3
          arrow-down
          6
          ·
          1 year ago

          The fact that there are tons of games only available on steam should tell you it’s a monopoly.

          It’s fucking shocking to me that so many people here actually believe that Valve isn’t a monopoly. You must have your head way up your ass.

          • skulkingaround@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            How many games are actually steam exclusive on PC though, not counting 50 cent shovelware crap? A good chunk of the best selling PC games ever (minecraft for example) are not even available on steam.

            I just went through the top 10 on steam and other than counter strike, which is literally made by valve, all of them are available elsewhere.

          • stillwater@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            1 year ago

            Because that’s not at all how a monopoly is defined and you ignored the concept of retail exclusivity deals to make this statement lol.

      • Zorque@kbin.social
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        9
        arrow-down
        5
        ·
        1 year ago

        One can have a monopoly without directly trying for it. Especially when it comes to services with a lot infrastructure involved. Once you make those investments, it’s hard for anyone to compete against them.

        A monopoly just means you control a significant amount of the market. I think, technically, they would fall under oligopoly. Where a few businesses have control of the market instead of just a single business. But the point is they have a far larger share of the market than most others. This is mostly because they create a product that people want to use, instead of making a service that unfairly captures the market through things like game exclusivity or hostile takeovers.

        • woelkchen@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          5
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          1 year ago

          But when the EU recently announced service gatekeepers, Valve was not among them. Microsoft is.

          • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            1 year ago

            *Because they don’t meat the minimum financial and monthly user criterias to be taken into consideration when analyzing the monopoly status of their platform

            You forgot to add that part 👍

            • woelkchen@lemmy.world
              link
              fedilink
              English
              arrow-up
              3
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              1 year ago

              Because they don’t meat the minimum financial and monthly user criterias to be taken into consideration when analyzing the monopoly status of their platform

              So Steam does not meet / meat🥩 the financial and monthly user numbers to count as a monopoly? So Steam is not a monopoly then. Great.

              • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                2
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                1 year ago

                No, the PC videogame market is too small for the European Union to analyse it.

                If the local hardware store is the only one selling screws for 100km around and it doesn’t show up on their list, does it means they don’t have a monopoly or it simply means that they don’t bother checking that because the hardware store doesn’t:

                Make 6.5B a year/doesn’t have a market capitalization of 65B

                Doesn’t have 45m monthly users in the union AND 10k business users in the union

                Meets those criterias three years in a row

                Because these are the criterias required for the EU to take the time to analyze a companies’ position in their market.

                • woelkchen@lemmy.world
                  link
                  fedilink
                  English
                  arrow-up
                  3
                  arrow-down
                  1
                  ·
                  1 year ago

                  No, the PC videogame market is too small for the European Union to analyse it.

                  Then please provide ANY form of facts-based analysis that Steam is a monopoly and no “Trust me, bro” isn’t that.

                  • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works
                    link
                    fedilink
                    English
                    arrow-up
                    2
                    arrow-down
                    2
                    ·
                    1 year ago

                    The European Union considers some companies to be a monopoly with a smaller market presence than Steam has in the PC video games sales market. That comes from your own source buddy.