Rule 6. Locking.
Edit: Unlocking based on argument that this post is general rather than about the recent US election (OP to edit title).
They’re definitely part of the reason why we are where we are. Not the only reason, but definitely a big part of it.
Additionally, I’ll say that their refusal to vote isn’t the protest they think it is. All it did was tell the powers that be that they trust everyone else to choose for them and that they’re fine with whoever wins.
They suck, but not nearly as much as the people that voted for Trump that are now claiming ignorance of his policies and regret their vote.
- They don’t get to complain because they refused to do the bare minimum.
- Contribute to the many reasons I had to leave my home country. Not sure it would be different otherwise, but going immigrant without a fallback plan wasn’t pleasant.
- Mandatory voting - I’m for it as long as it’s Australian style - no severe punishment, just light fines. Enough to quietly annoy people into voting.
As an Australian I do have a bit of a problem with mandatory voting. Mostly because it forces the uninformed to go vote too, so we get the same breed of fearmongering and sensationalist headlines on the newspaper front pages that are all owned by the same billionaires and the same idiots on social security voting for the party that would abolish social security because Facebook told them the other party wanted to let muslims rape their girlfriend.
But the voting on the weekend and the democracy sausage we definitely got right.
How is it better if someone just goes and circles a random name on the list because its mandatory? If someone doesn’t follow politics and isn’t educated enough to pick a good candidate, or motivated enough to research them, I think it’s better to not vote at all than to give it up to either chance or a superficial gut feeling based on constant propaganda barrage. A person that votes like that just makes your vote less impactful, statistically speaking.
Because they won’t do it randomly. Being forced to participate will make people think: “If I have to do it I might as well choose X”. If you ever participated in a mandatory school activity you might know the feeling. You might not have chosen to do it of your own free will, but now that you’re there let’s think what to make of it.
Also politics is not just voting. Politics is almost every choice you make every day. If I have to drag someone kicking and screaming until they understand it so be it.
Also also, voting randomly is not useless. Keeping the political system functional is preferable to forever pining for a perfect candidate. A “perfect glorious leader” doesn’t exist, random votes make those emotionally swayed by charismatic leaders less likely to gain a majority.
That’s a lot of assumptions that I can’t agree are inherently true. Forcing people to participate might not make them think at all beyond fulfilling the duty and not paying a fine, and random votes might not balance out the charismatic leaders at all - if anything the charismatic populist leaders that focus on good PR over substance will probably gather up more of these uneducated “just circle something” voters than the others. It is where/why marketing and commercials work so well in the first place and I’d rather not give even more power to this type of brainwashing, it is a popularity contest enough as it is.
If anything, I’d make it so in order for people’s votes to count they need to show at least a very basic understanding of what they are voting for and what are the implications of it.
One of you depends on people wanting aganecy in their own lives and a fair world, the other depends on everyone being literally too dumb and selfish to do the bare minimum to keep society from collapsing without a gun held to their head.
I know which world I would rather be living in
Which one is which that’s the big question
Not hard for anyone paying attention
How is it better if someone just goes and circles a random name on the list because its mandatory?
Statistically, if a large population being “forced” to vote were voting names randomly on ballots that had their own order randomly assigned, then their votes would be evenly distributed and not end up affecting the results.
Not necessarily true, I think most of those votes would go to the most popular populist candidate or the one with a better PR team, it wouldn’t be truly random distribution.
They don’t get to complain because they refused to do the bare minimum.
So you only vote in order to complain?
It’s a factor. I’m aware my political opinions are in the minority and unlikely to be implemented. Being able to demonstrate that I tried to do something gives legitimacy to my criticism.
Being able to demonstrate that I tried to do something
Participating in a glorified spectacle that simply exists to rubberstamp elite rule qualifies as “doing something” to you?
If they wanted a certain outcome but didn’t do jacks shit, with almost no exceptions as to why they didn’t vote, and complain about it, they are getting absolutely zero, zilch, notta, nothing in the sympathy department from me.
If you got the ability to vote, even if it’s for something as minor as what’s for dinner, and you don’t vote, don’t complain because you didn’t do anything.
Decisions are made by those that show up. If you didn’t vote, you don’t get to bitch when the results aren’t what you wanted.
Hard not to bitch when, as a citizen of another country, I could never vote, and yet people here still have to deal with the consequences.
You better believe the rest of the world will be bitching.
yes, I do
And we will all laugh at you for that hot take. Next time get off your ass and participate if you have an opinion.
don’t tell me what to do
I did.
Oh you do, but you lost the right to be taken seriously by anyone that did. And it’s no big surprise how so many of you that were shouting at everyone before the election have either vanished, or fallen silent about it since.
Fine, but we’ll take you less seriously.
this is bigotry
Make them take the “Walk of Shame” like in the GoT.
No fines. Just make it even easier and better process. Mail in ballots and a federal holiday for the Presidential election.
They should shut up about politics. Not voting is literally a declaration that you don’t care who governs you. Voting is what gives you the right to complain about the government. If you didn’t vote, shut up.
Not voting is literally a declaration that you don’t care who governs you
no, it’s not
They should shut up about politics
Not participating in fake, anti-democratic spectacles (somehow) “disqualifies” one from talking about politics?
This is just ignorance and whiny entitlement. Your “fake anti-democratic spectacle” is the hard-won achievement of generations of people who came before you. Boring liberal representative democracy is the exception in world history. Most people in the world have never had the opportunity that you have to influence your government. Not good enough for you? Well then get off your ass and do something to make it better. The very least you can do is vote, because out of two candidates, one is always better than another. If you can’t be bothered to do even that, then I for one don’t care what you have to say about politics.
because out of two candidates, one is always better than another
if neither one should have power, I’m not voting for either one
is the hard-won achievement of generations of people who came before you.
Really? The generations of people who resisted and fought against THIS EXACT STATUS QUO would be proud of these glorified rubberstamping spectacles which only exist to legitimize elite rule?
Really?
Boring liberal representative democracy is the exception in world history.
Really? So the ongoing genocide your “boring liberal representative democracy” is funding is… an exception? The history books says otherwise.
Most people in the world have never had the opportunity that you have to influence your government.
Lol! Do I sound like a billionaire parasite to you?
then I for one don’t care what you have to say about politics.
What’s the matter, liberal? Is all the cognitive dissonance starting to make you feel queesy?
Do I sound like a billionaire parasite to you?
No, you sound like an ignorant decadent American college student.
an ignorant decadent American college student.
Those Yankee college students staging protests on US campuses are far better at “doing” democracy than all the voting you could do over a lifetime put together.
Perhaps it’s best that you don’t try to flex about something you don’t seem to know too much about, okay?
Elections might be skewed, they might be giving voters a rather narrow choice, they might depend on who’s got the bigger campaign fund, they might not offer ranked choice, yet with all that --they’re still one of the most accessible, actionable things the average person can do to control their nation’s future. Passing on that is not justifiable, because we should be doing everything we can, and that includes voting. I used to be cynical like you, but
then I took an arrI mean, we can’t afford that.Elections might be skewed,
If you want to see this glorified rubberstamping of elite rule through those kind of rose-tinted spectacles, fine.
But don’t call it “democracy.”
I used to be cynical like you
If you think seeing through propaganda is “cynicism,” boy, do I have bad news for YOU.
Depends on your nomenclature, I’ve heard US and France’s political systems referred to as “flawed democracies”. I personally didn’t call either a democracy, I think we’re past that quite frankly.
If you think seeing through propaganda is “cynicism,” boy, do I have bad news for YOU.
I call cynicism “giving in to desperation instead of acting”. I’ve explained why imho not voting was the least reasonable choice, so far you have failed to reason back. Do you think you can do that ?
I’ve heard US and France’s political systems referred to as “flawed democracies”.
Painting a lighter shade of lipstick on a pig doesn’t make the pig less of a pig.
I personally didn’t call either a democracy,
No, you didn’t. And that is legit refreshing.
I’ve explained why imho not voting was the least reasonable choice
I never said that not voting was reasonable. My point is that it’s perfectly UNDERSTANDABLE.
There is a difference.
Better than voting for who looks the best on TV, or any of the other ways people vote without being fully informed. I’m sometimes forced to leave sections blanks because I cannot find anything about the candidates (I don’t know why my state vote on judges, the only way to find out if they any are good is to spend 100% of your time in court rooms, reading decisions, and so on all year)
local bar associations publish judge evaluations before the election
If you trust them. Where I live the bar chooses the person on the ballot and we only get a up or down. Thus any evaluation they do is by definiton a conflict of interest.
Well, where I am there are fourteen different bar associations. I’m not saying that if they all agree a judge is good it’s always so; but if three of them think a judge is not qualified, that’s not a judge I’ll vote for.
They’re no worse than (possibly better than) people who voted for whichever party because their parents/newspaper taught/told them to, or because that’s who they always vote for and are too lazy, stubborn, peer pressured or insecure to change - i.e. people who claim to be politically literate but don’t actually have a clue what they’re really voting for.
As an anarchist, I respect their decision in the sense that participating in the state is fighting for the state.
I would tell them to vote though, and I myself vote when its needed, to avoid getting utter bastards as ‘legitimate’ leaders. Here in France it’s even easier because I’m not given the choice between only capitalists and fascists, i can vote for light versions of socialists.
I’m against fines, even light ones. If they are not strictly scaled to income, they always strike harder people who are struggling already than richer ones. And even if they do, it’s not fair to be forced to participate in a form of politics you don’t want.
Thank you. Sadly, the concept of legitimizing a government isn’t something most people understand enough to appreciate.
Should I have thoughts on them?
They don’t care who leads them and are happy to go along with whatever circumstances or rules are presented to them.
Any problems with those circumstances or rules are their fault.
I’m largely disappointed in them. The one time they were needed the most, they didn’t care to show up. Like, you do not have to be knee deep in politics to understand what’s at stake and who’s running. Take a good solid 30 minutes out of your life, to research and study the candidates, the issues and think of the future of the country’s direction if either candidate and their party got voted in.
If they’d do just that, they’d probably have a better understanding. But they didn’t do that. They thought the 2024 election was in the bag and feel they didn’t need to do their part. Well, the results speak for themselves.
And nothing much more needs to be said or done, they’ve sentenced themselves to the mess that’s to happen a week and a half from now. Just as much as all of the brainwashed and braindead conservatives who actively voted for fascism.
They can live with Brexit.
