Summary
The UK has introduced the Tobacco and Vapes Bill, aiming to make it illegal for future generations to buy cigarettes. The bill proposes gradually raising the minimum smoking age, so those born after January 1, 2009, will never be able to purchase tobacco legally.
It also includes restrictions on vape flavors and packaging to prevent youth addiction and bans smoking in certain outdoor spaces, though pub beer gardens are exempt.
Supported by the Labour Party’s majority, the legislation seeks to create a “smoke-free U.K.” and combat smoking-related deaths.
Do you know what I’d like to see?
Instead of banning them, ban the extraction of profit on producing and selling them. Turn them into an entirely recreational market. I’d love to see the outcome of trying that.
I like the way you think.
Capitalists would rather there be a ban so that proles don’t realize how much they’re getting f**ked.
Wouldn’t that just push sales into the black market? Unless the government nationalized the sale of cigarettes, which seems… not great, if they believe in smoking cessation
Think of it like clubs for tobacco enthusiasts. Ideally you would have a club with one super knowledgeable person, split the costs of growing and his time and split the the results on potentially various types of products.
So kind of like how farm cooperatives work (I think?)?
There’s a guy at the farmers market that offers “shares” of cows. I can’t remember the details but you pay for a certain “guaranteed” pounds of beef plus sausage made from other parts (not guaranteed to be one cow), a long with some other meats (chicken, etc). When the cow is slaughtered, you get your meat.
Similar idea. In a lot of states it could be done locally with many tobacco strains.
I like the idea, but the people who do split the animal deals around me take advantage of their customers… wish I have had better experiences. Used to be a couple neighbors just paid a butcher on their off hours…
That makes sense to me
No, it wouldn’t
People working in and supporting the industry would work and consume as they always have.
It’s the business owners that would be hurting, as their entire existence depends on siphoning off the excess people are willing to pay for products and services.
Prices wouldn’t even go up. Businesses already charge the most people are willing to pay.
I am just wondering who would do all the work of warehousing, distributing, etc., if there was no profit motive.
Nonprofits can still have paid employees, it’s just that the company doesn’t profit; there’s no owner or shareholders extracting excess value.
That reminds me of REI in America. They’re technically a member-owned co-op, but they’re definitely a huge corporation making buckets for somebody, probably the leadership. So a non profit version of that
The people who do the work already.
Profit, by definition, is excess. It’s what’s leftover after all other business expenses are paid, including employee wages.
I guess I’m wondering who will hire the people to do that work? I assume a company that is allowed to have profit will be able to offer higher wages to be competitive
The people who do the hiring are part of a business’ expenses, not its profit.
They will still be doing their job like they normally do.
I assume a company that is allowed to have profit will be able to offer higher wages to be competitive
Where do they get that money? By charging you and I more than what a product costs to produce and bring to market. If people had higher standards (which they don’t), then they would go to the business that gives them the best deal.
Right now we live in a culture where people are proud to spend more money even if it’s for a worse product. Everything is backwards regarding personal financial responsibility which is why there is so much excess yet most people still think they “need” more money.
Without a profit motive, where is the incentive to work efficiently? The cost to get goods to market will include the cost of the inefficiencies in the market? The fact that the tobacco is being grown on a small plot instead of huge monocrop, etc.
How could this compete against a black market that has a profit motive to get costs low so they can take more for themselves
No one would farm it for profit and no one would import it for profit. Ends up with people still selling it for profit in a black or parallel market.
Yah, banning drugs works great. And doing it in the most cowardly way possible really elevates that.
Prohibition has been such a huge success. The only option is expanding it! \s
I guess the difference between the prohibition in the US and this bill, is that the alcohol prohibition banned it to everyone at once. People who were used to drinking or down right alcoholics had a strong incentive to obtain alcohol from somewhere, so there was a market for the underground moonshine producers. This bill isn’t targeting people who are already addicted to nicotine, but rather aims at preventing people developing the addiction in the first place, so I can imagine the market for underground tobacco growers or smugglers will be much smaller and less profitable. I am optimistic that this approach will be more successful than the 20s in America, but I guess we’ll have to wait and see.
🥱
More black markets aren’t the solution.
This is literally an idea I had when I was 16 years old. I was pretty dumb when I was 16.
Not here in the USA! With Trump, we’re going to recycle cigarettes into baby clothes and we’ll be using PTFE to bond the fibers together for a strong cancer healthcare company.
MACA - Make America Cancer Again
Sort of related but I saw that black plastic spatulas and other black plastic items contain toxic flame retardants because black plastic items are made from recycled e-waste.
It’s the gallium dopants that get me excited for more. 😂
Sounds good to me, tbh. Increasing health for everyone involved, reducing costs on medical services. I think New Zealand had something similiar? Instead of an outright ban affecting everyone this is slowly phased out, so young kids probably won’t even miss it.
NZ reversed that ban 1 year after announcing it and decades before it would have gone into effect.
I personally support this plan. Smoking in the UK has already plummeted. A lot of smokers have moved to vaping. Unfortunately, those left are often the ruder ones. Limiting where they cam smoke, or reduce expire for everyone else is a big dead for me.
Additionally, it’s not banning nicotine, it’s banning cigarettes. Vapes have changes the balance on that one. They are less damaging, and cause far less issues with passive smoking. This acts as a pressure relief valve, rather than a blanket nicotine ban. Also, at no point will an existing (legal) smoker go from legal to illegal.
The vape issue definitely needs fixing. A number have found advertising to younger users is a good money maker. Limiting the options here l, without an outright ban would help reduce the harm to children. It wouldn’t significantly affect ex smokers who moved to vaping.
Next do beer!
I dare you Parliament.In England? Lol
It’s part of Labour’s platform. Also right now, even for pubs and beer gardens, there’s a license to restrict the number of people that can smoke outdoors.
Well done UK!
I think cigarettes should be put behind a prescription wall. If you are addicted, a doctor can help you quit. In the mean time, they can make sure you keep having the nicotine delivery system you’re used to.
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Ban the sale of it. That’s it. You want to cultivate it yourself, no problem. Share it with friends and family, OK. Just no more industrialized tobacco.
There will be a black market. So what? The problem isn’t that people are using it. The problem is ubiquity. It’s readily available everywhere. A black market isn’t nearly as ubiquitous as selling it in every shop across the country.
What are you even talking about? I didn’t say anything about banning it.
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That sure sounds like a ban on recreational use to me.
You said nothing about recreational use. But something that overloads the healthcare system and costs a ton of money should not be allowed freely for recreational use.
What happens when someone without a prescription is caught with tobacco under this system you’re proposing?
A fine. Like many things that people do that are illegal. Are you under the bizarre impression that the only possible thing you can do to someone who commits a crime is imprison them?
What makes this preferable to just letting people smoke?
It helps them quit. Which is good. See above, re overloading the healthcare system and costing a ton of money.
Are you under the bizarre impression that the only possible thing you can do to someone who commits a crime is imprison them?
You’re replying to an American. So, yes.
If it’s a fine then it’s effectively only illegal for poor people – unless the fine scales with wealth
Like Finland’s speeding fines. That’s reasonable.
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When British taxpayers are the ones paying for the smokers’ illnesses, whether or not they personally want to quit is not the issue. You do know how socialized medicine works, yes? British nonsmokers should not have to foot the bill when they get emphysema or lung cancer.
I don’t know why you think they should.
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Sounds excellent for the vape market. Just make it so only natural tobacco is legal and at the same age in which you can be drafted in the UK.
