A lot less annoying then endlessly filtering content by community and user
There are some instances that lean in specific directions, but there are also several that are kind of just melting pots. For the most part I don’t need to use blocks too frequently, but there are definitely some spaces/users that I find are too hostile that it gets in the way of their intended messaging. But then, that line is going to be different for everybody.
People talk about filter bubbles, but there’s a nuance here: on Lemmy, you’re not being served up whatever the platform owners think you should see from an opaque algorithm. You’re going to, by default, see cesspool content. You have to choose to block it.
Unfortunately, the owners of your instance can also choose to block something for you.
Good choice of instance :-)
Almost everyone is on Lemmy.world, so… I don’t know. Don’t think they made a choice. People who are not on Lemmy.world made a choice at least.
The downside of that is the filter bubble or echo chamber effect. Question is whether Lemmy should be a fun experience for you or something to broaden your horizons a little
I’m reminded of a quote that goes something like this:
I’ve been thinking about the free exchange of ideas recently and come to the conclusion that it isn’t an open market - it’s a potluck.
Everybody brings something to the table and you’re free to pick and choose the things that you want to try, but you’re not obligated to try everything. Just because Karen put a piece of shit on the table and calls it a sandwich doesn’t mean that you have to take a bite to know that it’s shit. Similarly, we are not obligated to take white supremacists and other extremists’ ideas and seriously debate their value. They’re shit and can and should be treated as such.
The beauty of a self-curated experience is that you’re free to engage with the things that you want and can ignore the things that you don’t want to deal with. The risk of people isolating themselves is simply a part of having the freedom to choose your own experiences, the same as the real world.
Personally, one of the reasons that I’m here is because I have no choice but to deal with right-wing extremism in my daily life, and I don’t want to deal with it online as well. Reading news articles? That’s fine, but I don’t want to see chuds screaming about DEI or woke or whatever in the comments.
As if the default Lemmy experience isn’t a massive filter bubble in itself. I doubt hardly anyone here would want to federate with Twitter and Truth Social even though that would make your feed, in fact, less of an echo chamber. Hell, a huge number of inctances don’t even federate with Hexbear, Lemmygrad or Threads.
I think it’s pretty much impossible to fully get out of filter bubbles, but the only way to really get every view on everything is to be part of everything mainstream AND everything more underground. Personally, I don’t feel the need to associate with any other social media. I think toxicity differs from being exposed to a different point of view.
Reddit has had the problem for years that if you tried to make a point that slightly differed from the hive mind’s opinion, however eloquently you would put it, everyone would just pile on with their ‘akshually’ mentality and not even be open to any other viewpoint than their own.
And that’s toxicity without even mentioning folks that would just say ‘no’ followed by hateful language.
I feel Lemmy is a far kinder, more balanced community where you can have a polite discussion about stuff. And OP is right, if a certain instance shows its users can’t behave or have such different views than your own, you can just make them go away and enjoy the rest of Lemmy.
I just hope those users don’t defederate from the rest of us so at some point they will have a more nuanced view of things.
I feel Lemmy is a far kinder, more balanced community where you can have a polite discussion about stuff.
My experience has been much closer to what you described reddit to be. Lemmy is extremely unwelcoming of differing opinions.
Disagreeing with your perspective is easy because it’s utterly misguided. Lemmy is a paragon of inclusivity, welcoming all opinions as long as they adhere to basic decency. The platform thrives on a diverse range ideologies, from anti-capitalist to anarchist, fostering a rich tapestry of debate and discussion. If you find it unwelcoming, maybe it’s because you can’t handle being called out for having incorrect views. ^(/s)
You’re free to go thru my comment history, find one with lots of downvotes and point out to me where I wasn’t ‘adhering to basic decency.’
Are you one of today’s lucky 10,000 in learning what /s means?
Bruh. It’s not an echo chamber to filter out literal Nazis and other stuff. Ain’t nobody changing their mind from “spirited” internet debate and I don’t need their garbage in my day.
If you really mean “literal Nazis”, that tends to support the hypothesis that you’re not being exposed to much that contradicts your worldview.
Tell me more about how you must listen to literal Nazis on a daily basis to contradict your worldview.
And if you don’t think Lemmy has or has had to deal with literal Nazis:
Lol
You are referring to literally everyone you disagree with as a Nazi. You are an example of someone who lives in a toxic filter bubble.
No, I don’t. When I call people Nazis and fascists it’s because I know what both of those words mean, being literate.
Then you are missing the point because there are tons of people who disagree with you who aren’t Nazis. OP is talking about how it’s great how you can only talk with people you agree with.
You are replying to a comment thread that is about blocking Nazis, it’s completely disingenuous to act like that’s not a legit problem and that anyone is talking about anything other than actual fucking Nazis. They are real. No one said everyone they disagree with is a Nazi because that’s fucking stupid.
No shit, genius.
For example, the liberals endorsing genocide for realpolitik aren’t fascists, they’re just doing what American liberals have done since the founding of liberalism as an ideology.
I disagree with them but don’t call them Nazis and don’t think their opinions on other things shouldn’t be heard.
What instance is “literal Nazis”?
There are many that were defederated many months ago that aren’t even the common ones discussed. I forget some of their names but you can review the defed lists. They are beyond the pale, open open racism, calls for open violence, CP, etc. I’m not talking about some double speak, bad policy maga stuff, I’m talking about cartoons showing minorities as animals, cartoons of lynchings, etc.
The fediverse is a big place.
Edit who the fuck downvotes this
I was speaking to the general practice of filtering in response to the echo chamber generalization, not the original post calling out instances. Personally I filter out porn instances because that’s not what I’m here for. The nice thing about the app I use is that I don’t see any posts from those instances but I can choose to see comments because people interacting on the posts I see are generally there for random reasons and are reacting instead of posting their whatever.
You can listen to people try to convince you that Russia’s war is justified and that Tienamen Square never happened for a while if you want, then make up your mind and block them later ;-).
It doesnt necessarily mean that importent things won’t be covered. I just don’t need fox news opinion about it.
Then you should pick a reputable paper like The Guardian and read a chronological RSS feed. Articles that don’t support Lemmys preexisting point of view don’t even get posted here.
I mean, personally I am not here to discuss politics or get the news. I’m here for memes and nerding out. All that real-world shit doesn’t vibe. I wanna laugh.
Exactly. I want to be able to mention the fashion lizard, the bisexual twink doctor, and his husband the suffering Irishman… And for people to understand who I’m talking about.
I agree, the filters here are great. I don’t mind the real world stuff but I filter your instance because I don’t want to see furry porn.
(Not trying to be snarky, your kinks are not any of my business, hence the filter. My comment is meant to be genuine.)
The existence of “echo chambers” is debated by scientists. It really doesn’t matter who you hang around with, you’re going to disagree with people.
The echo chamber is overstated: the moderating effect of political interest and diverse media.
Tweeting from left to right: Is online political communication more than an echo chamber?
I feel like the term echo chamber gets thrown around a lot. Imo an echo chamber has to be highly specific. I wouldn’t classify every monolingual person as trapped in an echo chamber for example. I would also argue against to idea of having to be weary of creating your own echo chamber online. Use social media how you like, the solution to echo chambers is going outside and touching grass not forcing yourself to interact with every community on the internet.
Like most things, there’s a sliding scale. I block two instances (in my client) because of the high noise-to-signal ratio, and a few individuals who I find particularly obnoxious. I’ve never blocked anyone who I thought was trying to have a good-faith argument with me, regardless of their position. But I also don’t feel obligated to stand and listen to the MAGA dipshit shouting obscenities at minorities, either. Is it an echo chamber? No more than me not watching Fox “News”.
Although, Lemmy leans strongly left, and the instances are tankie ones; there isn’t a lot of right-leaning posting IME. I think this is a particularly difficult time for reasonable conservatives because of how their party has been co-opted by fascists. The instances I’m on doesn’t do a lot of defederating, but I know just by virtue of being on Lemmy, I’m getting a left bias.
It’s an echo chamber whether you think that’s a bad thing or not, only being exposed to one type of view point is what an echo chamber is. And people probably should be exposed to opinions they disagree with, but it doesn’t have to be constantly, and it doesn’t have to be when they’re already stressed or tired, for the sake of their mental health.
I wouldn’t classify every monolingual person as trapped in an echo chamber
Simply being something isn’t an echo chamber, you have to have a thought or opinion being shared by the group. If every person you interact with only speaks one language, and they all share that one language is the best method of communication, that’s an echo chamber.
Use social media how you like
I agree. Although it is useful to be aware of your own biases.
the solution to echo chambers is going outside and touching grass not forcing yourself to interact with every community on the internet.
Assuming you don’t mean literally “touch grass”, the solution is seeking out opinions/thoughts outside of your echo chamber. That doesn’t necessarily mean forcing yourself to interact with terrible communities, but being aware and understanding (but not agreeing with) them.
Although I again refer to using social media how you like is fine. No one needs to be exposed to certain communities. It’s not wrong or lazy or bad to ignore certain communities or viewpoints, especially toxic ones. However you should be aware that they exist and it can be helpful, if you choose, to understand where they come from.
As a harmless example, if you don’t like brussel sprouts and none of your friends like brussel sprouts, it may benefit you to try brussel sprouts or to seek out and talk to or read about people who like brussel sprouts. You can still at the end of the day dislike brussel sprouts. You don’t have to change your opinion. But now your opinion is more well rounded.
I think a bit the opposite: I’m really worried about the trend to give people only information they care about. I think it’s essential to be able to have information about everything. Of course there will always be stuff you don’t care about but having it automatically filtered out is dangerous in my opinion. In GAFA-powered social networks, you are only given pieces of information about your own opinion, you never have something that make you question yourself about your opinion. The power of independent and open media like Lemmy is to not rely on such biasing algorithms.
There’s a nuance here that you’re missing - self-curating your social media experience is vastly different from the algorithm hellhole that is the modern corporate social media landscape. You can filter out any dissenting opinions or facts, but you can in real life, too. And like in real life, it takes a lot of active effort to get to that point. Whereas the algorithm will do that for you without you even knowing it.
I’d say that self-curated social media is like going off to college or moving to a new city while the algorithm is like living in the town you grew up in. I grew up in a very liberal state, but there were about 3 non-white kids in my entire high school the year I graduated, and it wasn’t until I was introduced to Tumblr in college in the late 2000s that I first heard words like “transgender.” And Tumblr is the most self-curated social media that I’ve ever seen. Back then, you couldn’t even follow hashtags - just people. So your front page was exclusively people that you followed and the posts that they reblogged from people that they followed.
You don’t have to use filters, just like you don’t have to subscribe to subreddits on Reddit. You can just use the default front page if you are afraid of tailoring it to your tastes.
Yep. I just raw dog All for the past 6 hours most of the time. The only communities I’ve blocked are the most active German ones because I don’t speak German.
Are you me
I think it attracts a certain type of person to Lemmy in the first place; someone who would have probably used the original Reddit back in the day
Idk what this means but yeh
Yes, most people will want to do this at a minimum with Lemmy.ml and lemmygrad.ml (actually most instances already have defederated with the second, but it doesn’t hurt).
How do you filter out an entire instance as a single user? I was just trying to figure that out the other day, but it didn’t appear possible.
Account Settings - Blocks - Instances
Ah, thanks. I had to scroll down a ways because my individual community block list was large enough to push that one out the bottom of the page I guess.
Not sure how to on desktop but I use Connect and it’s in the menu options of posts. Super easy to block individuals, communities, and instances.
Any system model that eventually encourages echo chamberism should not be in use, even if the intent is to change the system before echo chambers occur, by then it will be too entrenched to just change
I don’t think giving users the freedom to choose what they want or don’t want to see encourages anything. Some of us are here for the memes or literally anything other than politics. Everytime a debate about defederating comes up, that fact is the first thing everyone forgets about
But those echo chambers are a normal result of human interaction, from the friends you choose, to the events and bars/clubs you frequent, to the magazines and papers/websites you read.
Echo chambers will naturally occur as long as people can choose who to follow or read or otherwise consume or connect with.
The only system to prevent this would be to always force every flavor of everything to anybody, removing every way to filter or freedom to choose who to follow and what to hear/consume. And that sounds very dystopian and fascist to my ears.
Idk about fascist but it certainly makes vulnerable groups open to harassment.
That too, yes!
I agree wholeheartedly
Fascist? Are you fucking kidding me? You’re literally just describing newspapers, broadcast news, town criers, and literally all life pre-internet.
Filter bubbles occur because we have the ability to selectively choose to only hear news we like which is a new phenomena that is a result of the internet, because it is fundamentally a messaging system, not a broadcast system like virtually every news system throughout history.
You are just falling into the American trap that personal freedom is the ultimate good and should trump everything else, even if the systemic effects of it are bad.
Reddit / Lemmy are fundamentally not a good place to read the news and get informed because of the filter bubble effect. They’re a good place to go have an in-depth discussion about an article, but if you actually want to be informed then you should use an RSS reader or something else that gives you a chronological feed, not one based on what’s popular amongst people you already agree with.
I fear you misunderstood me. Fascist would be if choice would be forbidden, when everyone would have to always hear every side of every topic.
Even with newspapers and the like are filter bubbles possible. I am free to buy only the newspaper who writes the stories in the way I want to read them. There are left wing newspapers and right wing newspapers and stuff in between. And even with newspapers and broadcasts you are still free to only consume what you want to consume and block, by not buying or active ignoring, what you not want to see or hear. Things like cracker-barrel philosophy or Stammtischparolen where a thing long before the Internet.
Echo chambers are a normal part of being human, it exists in small (only between friends),huge (tribes/nations/cults/religions) and anything in between more or less as long as humans are able to communicate.
Even with newspapers and the like are filter bubbles possible. I am free to buy only the newspaper who writes the stories in the way I want to read them. There are left wing newspapers and right wing newspapers and stuff in between. And even with newspapers and broadcasts you are still free to only consume what you want to consume and block, by not buying or active ignoring, what you not want to see or hear. Things like cracker-barrel philosophy or Stammtischparolen where a thing long before the Internet.
Are you arguing that the filter bubble effect is the same for a newspaper and for a social media site?
Yes, the filter bubble effect is still possible to some extent with a traditional chronological news feed, but it’s quite frankly absurd on it’s face to claim that that is the same severity of filter bubble, when a site like Reddit / Lemmy operates by taking those chronological news feeds and filtering them further.
The Guardian might be a relatively true neutral newspaper (meaning it appears to lean left by mainstream standards), and yet articles it publishes that back up any remotely right wing / economically conservative points do not get posted here.
Echo chambers naturally arose in the past because information could not travel freely, that does not mean they are a good thing or something that we should be recreating and reinforcing on the internet now that it can.
I never said that they are a good thing, I say they are a natural occurrence, something that only can prevented by a very dystopian system.
Because people will always filter what they want to hear and consume, and with that create filter bubbles. If you went to church (regardless of the specific religion) you enter a filter bubble. If you talk with people on a rave you are in a completely different filter bubbles then in a country music bar. Filter bubbles are all around us and yes the Internet is, by its nature, a magnifying glass for this effect. But it inherent to the human nature not inherent to the Internet. So to prevent filter bubbles you would have to radically change the human nature.
> sees people exercising their freedom of association
> “yeah this thing sucks btw”
Have to counterbalance dog piling when your ban hammer can’t target a whole nest
I haven’t thought about how that works.
If other instance users post on a problematic instance by accident or because there’s a useful community, I wouldn’t want those hidden.
Then again if it, preferably, only hides the users of the problematic instance, that doesn’t really solve the core issue of bad actors being enabled in the fediverse 🤔
That’s why we should use the federation features more often. You should choose an instance that federates with the instances you like. Blocking can be done on most mainstream platforms, we can defederate!
Still looking for instances that defedded with lemmy.ml…
https://lemmy.cafe/instances does
Single admin low population instance though, so as usual it might disappear overnight
dubvee.org also does.
Thank you
Trust me, as someone who has been through this process, they manage to drive away all the normies pretty quickly.
And what we’ve learned about trump cultists is that echo chambers are fabulous.
So far I find it to be nonsense. Call the US a terrorist nation for couping democratically elected leader in favour of dictators for over a hundred years, get downvoted and banned by amerophiles. Call China or Russia terrorist nations for literal genocide, wars and international strongman bullying, get downvoted and banned by tankies.
Can’t say retard because that’s a slur but idiot is fine despite it meaning the absolutely same thing, also calling someone slow but in french is also fine.
People are so hardcore pro privacy would literally rather see child rapists go free and child porn platforms stay online, than to have to tolerate the police scan outgoing connections for a specific IP for three days.
Lemmy feels more and more like extremist echo chambers without any actual discourse or exchange.
the US a terrorist nation for couping democratically elected leader in favour of dictators for over a hundred years
Is this really true?
Yeah CIA likes to overthrow foreign governments, some democratically elected, and destabilize nations. They say they don’t do it anymore but who knows. It’s pretty public knowledge.
Edit: I live in America and it’s like that thing where you can talk shit about your own family.
I meant the “for over a hundred years” part specifically, I bolded it but it’s not as noticeable as it should be.
oh yeah for sure. Dude they orchestrated a coup and took over Hawaii in the like 1800s.
Plus I think there was fuckery in Latin America even back then.
The Monroe Doctrine has been a guiding principle of American geopolitics since its conceptualization in 1823, whether or not America has had the power to necessarily enforce it.
The goal is clear, the Western Hemisphere is America’s property to do with as it pleases and interference will not be tolerated.
Just the history of Haiti alone and the Banana Wars in general proves the point for at least 100 years.
Thanks. It’s a part of history I know very little about.
No, your reasoning, understanding of a topic and way of talking is just dumb. Get rid if that paranoia of everyone bullying you. Don’t go into threads of your political opposite and then be surprised to get flogged. Don’t brush of everyone disagreeing with you as “they are all the same and equally bad”. Stop ignoring authoritarian abusing power and wake up from you fantasy dream world where you believe this doesn’t happen. Once you’ve given up some of your rights, it’s really hard to get them back. No one is defending pedo platforms, it’s about our lifes and knowledge that these surveillance tools will fuck up normal people. It just takes one stupid vote to get the fascists into power and a whole country can move into a dictatorship. If you fail to see this, your very naiv and need to study more history content.
You’re not wrong in criticizing the US, people who look at them objectively should obviously see the many flaws. But as with guns , the US is very patriotic and it’s difficult to argue against. But getting someone to realize and fix their own bias is another difficult topic.
