people have been demonizing it for most of the AD years i think but it’s quite pleasant really. are there any proven negative effects?

    • Andy@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      105
      arrow-down
      9
      ·
      edit-2
      7 months ago

      I’d like to go a bit deeper.

      I don’t think people invented socially controlling practices because they found religion, I think they found religion to frame the invention of socially controlling practices.

      Masturbation is a gratifying act that relives pressure to settle into a rigid domestic arrangement that serves to make more workers and soldiers, and create dependents that need fed, and whose well-being would be threatened if a parent became defiant and provoked the ire of elites.

      Masturbation is good for the individual at the expense of the nation and its rulers. So it’s inevitable that priests would decry it as an affront against god, as that’s historically been their purpose.

    • Stupidmanager@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      25
      arrow-down
      5
      ·
      7 months ago

      Pretty sad when religion claims to abhor evil, happens to be the source of a lot of it. Right? I can’t name a single thing religion ever did for me other than make me miserable.

      • DeltaTangoLima@reddrefuge.com
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        7 months ago

        IMO, and without actual data to back it up, I reckon religion (and religious difference) is responsible for the most suffering throughout the history of humankind.

        • Confused_Emus@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          14
          ·
          7 months ago

          I feel like even without religion we’d find ways to make each other miserable ‘cause we’re just an awesome species like that.

          • DeltaTangoLima@reddrefuge.com
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            13
            arrow-down
            2
            ·
            7 months ago

            Yeah, no dispute here, mate. We’re pretty shocking like that. But I think religion stands out as an example of the worst, most inventive way we’ve come up with to subjugate and hurt people.

            As a species, we’ve convinced ourselves that religion should be protected rather than inspected. We let lots of bad things happen in the name of religion. It’s bullshit.

  • FuglyDuck@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    129
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    7 months ago

    So, like, for the bulk of history, the people demonizing it are religious assholes.

    They demonized sex out of wedlock, demonized wanking off; and any other kind of sexual release, while simultaneously deciding who you can marry (and therefore have kids with,).

    It’s one of their core methods of social control, ensuring wealth is only passed on to children of wealthy and “faithful” families.

    • Andy@slrpnk.net
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      14
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 months ago

      I posted a comment impulsively, then saw that you already gave the same answer better.

    • gramie@lemmy.ca
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      6
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      7 months ago

      They also practiced polygamy, so that rich and influential men would have multiple wives and poor men would have none. Imagine the rage when you were a Shepherd tending someone else’s flocks, knowing that you will never have a wife or family.

      It makes sense to have occasional wars with neighboring tribes so that excess males can be removed from the system.

  • alekwithak@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    133
    arrow-down
    8
    ·
    7 months ago

    Christianity and capitalism. If it doesn’t make you feel guilty the Christians don’t like it and if you can provide it to yourself for free the capitalists don’t like it.

  • BastingChemina@slrpnk.net
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    72
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    7 months ago

    Ejaculation lower the risk of prostate cancer, so masturbation should probably be medically advised to all men.

    4-7 times a week is a good number according this study

  • boletus@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    73
    arrow-down
    3
    ·
    7 months ago

    Jerking it is fine, but just like any coping mechanism, you can abuse it and get addicted to it, then it becomes a problem.

    If you’re doomscrolling porn, for example, then maybe it is having a negative effect on you.

  • frezik@midwest.social
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    66
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    7 months ago

    Because you enjoy it. If you’re fixing your issues, it must be through pain and suffering. If it doesn’t involve pain and suffering, then it isn’t fixing your issues. The “Protestant work ethic” doesn’t come right out and say that, but it’s the implication.

    See also: denial of LSD and psilocybin for mental health purposes.

    • dustyData@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      9
      ·
      7 months ago

      For the seminal analysis of this topics, there’s Max Weber’s book “The Protestant Ethic and the Spirit of Capitalism”. But it is really dry reading, so I would suggest finding some YouTube essay video that summarizes it.

      • viking@infosec.pub
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        1
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        You can get a prescription for paid sex in the Netherlands if certain conditions apply, and other EU countries are exploring the option.

        I don’t know how hot she’d be though.

  • kent_eh@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    62
    arrow-down
    1
    ·
    edit-2
    7 months ago

    (Sing along with me)

    Every sperm is sacred

    Every sperm is good

    Every sperm is wanted

    In your neighborhood

  • tunetardis@lemmy.ca
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    55
    ·
    7 months ago

    literally good for you

    I actually asked my family doctor at one point about the health effects of masturbation. She said that as a guy, if you are not otherwise sexually active, it’s good for the prostate to keep the plumbing working down there.

  • boonhet@lemm.ee
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    45
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    7 months ago

    Religion, capitalism. Powerful groups want more people to have more children.

    Luckily I’m in a progressive enough country that even in school we were taught that masturbation is a thing and not necessarily bad.

    As for negative effects - if you do it TOO much, particularly with a very strong grip, then don’t be surprised if, when having actual intercourse, you’re just not feeling much and might be unable to reach orgasm. You might even be uninterested in your partner sexually. A few days without masturbation will fix it though, doesn’t seem to be permanent. Day 2 without doing it and I couldn’t keep my eyes (or hands) off my wife’s body.

    Sex was very infrequent for me and my wife in the last few months of her pregnancy, so that’s how I know. Soon as we started doing it on a somewhat regular basis again, I opted to quit jerking it because I wanted to enjoy the real thing more, even if it’s not every single day. No long-term negative effects that I’ve noticed.

    • Aux@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      7 months ago

      Capitalism is powered by fapping, the fuck are you talking about?

      • LazyBane@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        3
        ·
        7 months ago

        A lot of the power users in this thread have clearly never heard of “sex sells”.

        Title

        Also non-zero chance some of these guys might have an association with Mindgeek. Just a hunch, given how easy reddit like sites are to manipulate.

      • boonhet@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        4
        ·
        7 months ago

        It’s powered by there being enough of us wage slaves, which requires us to procreate, which is why red states in the US ban sex education, abortion, etc.

        Of course, other capitalists have realized they can show ads on porn

  • HobbitFoot @thelemmy.club
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    37
    ·
    7 months ago

    A lot of religion has been to push a heterosexual couple together for the means of procreation. Masturbation has been seen as a way for people to lessen their urge to procreate in the appropriate canonical manner.

  • Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    35
    arrow-down
    2
    ·
    7 months ago

    These days mutual masterbation is better for your relationship than having kids. It’s not the kids fault, society has made having kids a nightmare.

    And of course the reason it is demonized is that any powerfull organization/society needs peoples shoulder to stand on. So, the more people, the more power. And they don’t really care if it was by rape due to sexual frustration, they just need more people to take advantage of.

  • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    54
    arrow-down
    22
    ·
    edit-2
    7 months ago

    Because easy dopamine hits are also easy to gain unhealthy addictions to. Because it’s literally right there, easily accessible, at all times.

    Couple this with how incredibly unhealthy the social relationships portrayed in most pornography are, and you’re gearing up for a lot of young men addicted to wanking and having unrealistic expectations of sex. The porn young women read isn’t necessarily much better, in the regard of healthy social sexual relationships.

    Now, I’m not one of those weird “you shouldn’t jerk it at all” folks because that’s just extremism in the other direction.

    Temperance and moderation are key in all things.

    • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      46
      arrow-down
      10
      ·
      7 months ago

      Porn “addiction” is a misnomer because it doesn’t have much in common with drug addiction, gambling addiction, etc. Porn “addicts”, when you show them images of porn, do not have brain responses like those of addicts who are shown images of whatever they’re addicted to.

      But what is a great predictor for whether or not someone will self report being a porn addict is shame. Gay men in particular are significantly more likely than straight men in general to say they’re addicted to porn. So are straight men with a heavily religious background.

      Which isn’t to say that people who report porn addictions aren’t really suffering, it’s just not the same as an actual addiction and is instead the result of living in a culture telling you that your normal sexual desires are wrong.

      • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        edit-2
        7 months ago

        I actually agree. What’s addicting is the hit of dopamine from sexual release, not the porn itself. I see porn as more like how people who quit smoking often still find something to fiddle with in their hands and mouth. Biting on pencils, straws, etc. because part of their ritual of using the substance involved taking out a cigarette and putting it up to their mouth. The act of viewing porn itself isn’t the addiction, but it’s associated with it.

        Like I said, moderation is key, because there’s a wide difference between masturbating a healthy amount and filling various cumjugs with figurines in them. Like if you can go out and live a normal life after jerking it, awesome, fuck yeah, that’s great. If you can’t make it through a workday without going to the bathroom to crank it, maybe you’ve got a fucking problem. I shouldn’t have to deal with some fucking weirdo breathing heavily and shaking the whole stall next to me in the bathroom because they can’t wait until they get home.

        The porn is rather a social knock-on effect because people often seek out porn to make the pathway to dopamine release easier. The seeking of the orgasm has almost nothing to do with the societal implications of porn and its impact on relationships. However, the social impact is that people begin to associate unhealthy aspects of porn with a sex life and achieving orgasm in a sex life.

        There are unfortunately deep layers of exploitation, unhealthy power dynamics, and control in porn that can be healthy between consenting adults who have achieved trust but some people really start digesting this porn before they’re mature enough to know how to healthily navigate those issues (especially in a society that sure as fuck isn’t teaching them, because of the aforementioned religious demonization of sex). This leads to further unhealthy experiences with sex, and I don’t think the gay (and LGBTQ+ community as a whole for that matter) community is free from that exploitation or people being exposed to it before they’ve had to education to navigate it healthily either. In fact, as a minority group, I would rather think they’re more likely to be exploited by the same people who hate their very existence… which further ingrains and exacerbates the very problems I’m speaking to, because the exploitation aspect of pornography is normalized. The areas that consume the most LGBT themed porn tend to be the most religiously restricted, and their viewpoint of that porn is almost 100% exploitative. To me it’s a hard sell that that’s not somehow a net negative for the LGBT community and that they’re mostly being exploited in pornograhy and in sex work by the very people who want to demonize their very existence.

        • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          9
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          7 months ago

          The feeling of chasing that high, which scientists can show physical evidence of through brain imaging, isn’t present in people who self report porn addiction. What they’re calling addiction is frequently just enjoying masturbation, which they feel shame about, and that any amount is too much. If what people are self reporting as porn addiction neurologically doesn’t behave as an addiction, then therapies for addiction are not going to be evidence based treatments.

          The people you’re talking about with cum jars often don’t even see their behavior as a problem, much less labeling themselves addicts. The overlap of the circles of people who masturbate in public and those that call themselves porn addicts is near zero. Calling all of that porn addiction is basically lumping all problematic sexual behavior together with people who think they’re part of that group because they look at porn and masturbate.

          The professionals that treat porn addiction are also for the most part members of religious organizations that promote religious based solutions, which also doesn’t really offer much evidence against the idea that porn “addiction” is religious based shame.

          The porn industry itself being exploitative of the workers is a completely different conversation than someone being “addicted” to porn.

          I get that anyone who says they have a porn addiction isn’t having a good time. But we can’t ignore that there is a huge industry of religious quackery that is more than happy to take your money and tell you that you’re oh so sick, just as your shame and guilt tell you.

          • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            4
            arrow-down
            5
            ·
            edit-2
            7 months ago

            I want you to go back and re-read both of my posts and tell me where I said the words “porn addiction” or alluded to porn being the addiction. I’m trying to work with you here buddy, but you’ve decided that I’m saying something I haven’t said, after I took the time to clearly explain as much.

            I literally am not talking about porn addiction nor have I used the words porn addiction, so can you take your crusade elsewhere, please and thank you.

            The people you’re talking about with cum jars often don’t even see their behavior as a problem, much less labeling themselves addicts.

            Literally what I am talking about and why I didn’t use the term porn addiction.

            • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              5
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              7 months ago

              I’m sorry, I guess I don’t understand why you’re talking about addictions and how that relates to dopamine in your first comment if you’re not talking about porn addiction. I’m not using quotes around porn addiction to directly quote you, I’m using them because I don’t believe porn addiction is a real thing.

              • Snot Flickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                link
                fedilink
                English
                arrow-up
                4
                arrow-down
                6
                ·
                edit-2
                7 months ago

                how that relates to dopamine in your first comment if you’re not talking about porn addiction

                Dude, we’re literally talking about how orgasms release dopamine. What the fuck are you smoking? I’m literally talking about the orgasm itself!

                Fucking reading comprehension is dead.

                • Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  4
                  arrow-down
                  3
                  ·
                  7 months ago

                  If your problem is specifically me using the word porn when you’re talking about masturbation more generally, with or without porn, does it help to add the context that “porn addiction” is used interchangeably by these groups with “masturbation addiction”? I’m not really sure where this is breaking down.

        • areyouevenreal@lemm.ee
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          2
          ·
          7 months ago

          What it seems you’re describing is how nymphomania manifests in people without a partner. Nymphomania and porn addiction are two different things. Likewise I don’t think nymphomania necessarily has the same underlying causes as say a drug addiction, it might be something like a hormonal issue. Hard to know without doing more research.

      • OpenStars@discuss.online
        link
        fedilink
        English
        arrow-up
        6
        arrow-down
        3
        ·
        7 months ago

        I, we all rather, are “addicted” to air, water, food, shelter, safety, rest, etc. - which as you say isn’t the same as a true “addiction” at all. Wanting things that produce a healthy life is not a bad thing, and in fact quite the opposite. To the extent that religion or culture or whatever encourages the opposite (rather than e.g. moderation and consideration, like mindfulness), it is wrong and bad. Even for someone who believes in a God who is good, those false beliefs need to be cast aside, bc they hinder us from living well. I wish I had discovered this earlier in life.:-D

    • Emerald@lemmy.world
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      2
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      7 months ago

      Couple this with how incredibly unhealthy the social relationships portrayed in most pornography are, and you’re gearing up for a lot of young men addicted to wanking and having unrealistic expectations of sex.

      I don’t really get this honestly. When people watch The Flash, they know that it’s unrealistic for someone to move at that speed. When people read sci-fi, they know it’s unrealistic to expect every problem to be solved by science in their lifetime. When people watch the show Superstore, they don’t expect it to actually be a realistic representation on how a big box store runs. So I don’t see why porn would be any different. They’re all acting.

  • Muscar@discuss.online
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    25
    arrow-down
    4
    ·
    7 months ago

    You realize things aren’t viewed the same all over the world right? Here in Sweden it’s nothing bad or wrong, we generally have good sex education and parents that are fine with it as long as we keep it private and clean. And as adults it’s completely normal, not that uncommon to talk about either. There was a monthly magazine for teens when I grew up that talked a lot about sex, sexual identity and stuff like that and the readers could send it questions to get answered by professionals or other readers. Very open and helped so many with things they didn’t dare ask parents or others about and it was always a better source than the Internet when that came around. Pretty sure it’s still a thing too.

    So it’s just seen as a thing everyone does and enjoys.