That’s a lot of anger you’re spitting just because someone doesn’t want to hear screaming children. My siblings and I were never allowed to scream in public.
Hmm my mother says I was quiet and I observed normal amounts of fussiness from my other siblings that was far less than screaming at the top of their lungs. If they had done that, they would have been shushed, comforted, talked to, or taken somewhere else because my parents took responsibility for their own decisions and for what their children did. Instead of pretending it’s hopeless and that whatever impulse we had was fine.
My son was, too. I didn’t raise him strictly (I was a hippie mother, raised in the 70s), but gradually acclimatised him through smaller interactions (small groups to larger, to regional to public), because I had that luxury. Lots of parents over the past 10 years were deprived of that, and it’s been exceptionally difficult to get a child acclimatised to an increasingly hostile world.
People have been far less patient in public – which is entirely understandable, given the circumstances – so many parents and other caregivers (teachers, counsellors, etc) who are trying their best can’t help but be defensive when they hear negativity towards children online, because I’d wager everyone encounters people who are excessively put out by the slightest transgression of a child in their proximity.
It may not be the way the majority react, nor how you react, but it happens regularly enough to become exhausting.
So, in these conversations, I feel like many people are responding to children who are clearly being publicly misparented, and then there are many parents who are thinking of the times someone overreacted to a social faux pas by their child.
I feel like people are misdirecting their anger here.
I think you’re dead on actually. The person I responded to is so defensive because they’ve probably been talked to about it before. No matter how awful it’s been I never have done that. And if they realized that they as a parent are used to the annoyance, but others aren’t, it actually takes restraint not to at least glare. So when that commenter got so pissed, I assume their child is poorly behaved enough for the parent to get told semi-often
Right, and if their child does only occasionally act out (as literally all children do at least a few times in their life), they might assume a commenter is that one guy who is overly put out over a minor social infraction, because just like you’re picturing the stand-out moments you’ve seen when it was bad, so are they. But their stand-out has been someone confronting you because your* eldest started stacking boxes in the aisle whilst you were tending to the baby for 30 seconds.
We’re all thinking of our own extremes and are kinda talking past each other. It seems that, unlike some conversations lately, everyone is kinda right, but it also seems that we need more empathy towards the fact that raising young children has been more societally difficult lately, and kids need less hostility to become emotionally healthy adults.
Thing is, I’ve never shown any hostility and I don’t see how agreeing with “it’s not my problem though” suggests I do. However someone ranting starting with “fuck off” makes me think they suck as a parent.
I show my empathy by putting up with kids everywhere I go. Parents can show their empathy by literally just not ignoring bad behavior. Which in other comments I clarified is the only thing I actually have issues with. The entire store should not be filled with shrill screams while the parent flat out ignores it for 10 minutes. Not too much to ask.
You’re reacting to the worst parenting you’ve seen in public, but they’re thinking of the worst experiences they’ve had, too – which was people overreacting to relatively small transgressions.
Everyone is talking about a completely different set of people than who they’re talking to. Both of those different sets of people are terrible: the parents who haven’t even tried to teach their children, and also the people who overreact when a child steps out of bounds. You are neither of these, and it looks like neither is your interlocutor.
I don’t know. I got your point, I’m just asserting I don’t think I gave reason for judgment (at least initially , and neither did the person she attacked) whereas that commenter came in swinging and therefore gave every reason
Every child screams in public at some point? That’s normal development. You and I did too. They may just be excited.
Of course if a child is screaming constantly then the parents need to intervene. But expecting children to be seen but not heard is unrealistic by any standard.
Not really. There are kids louder than others. And while there may be some internal aspects to that a lot of that have to do with education. Specially as they grow and education starts becoming more a defining factor.
Yes, I have a lot of anger for people who meet the most vulnerable parts of our society with hostility. I have an immense anger for people who don’t think these vulnerable people in the making have a place in society.
Congratulations on not being allowed to scream in public, ever. Did you good. Your parents had shitty standards and now you want to enforce these on other children so that they will also grow up and hate children. Great idea.
What you don’t understand (or pretend not to) is that you’re the one being judged, not the kids. It seems obvious from this chain that your kids are out of control and you get judged for it. I can think of no other reason you’d act this way.
Honestly, the judgement of parenting is not my main issue here. It’s the hypocrisy of at the same time saying “this is your problem, not mine” and “you have to deal with your problem so that I am not inconvenienced.”
Like, you can’t have it both ways. Either you don’t care, and then other people deserve the right to also not care about your opinion, or you do indeed care, and then it is your problem too. Your quote about not being part of the village is the one that I am saying fuck off to. You want to take yourself out of society and of the context, yet expect the other part to not take themselves out of society. You don’t even decide to look away, you decide to look with destructive criticism. I don’t see how this is supposed to help anyone, you included.
You come off as the type of person who will look at both the kid and the parent in disdain for being a nuisance even when they did something absolutely minor that you could easily avoid, ignore, or get away from. Are you assuming the kid will differentiate between your reaction towards them and their parent? Or that your reaction has no effect on the parent’s treatment of their child, perhaps in a more negative than positive way?
As for the judgement part, as I have pointed out somewhere else, you are seeing a sniplet of a day, of a life, of an hour. Yet you feel like you have enough information to rightfully judge. It’s correct that the kid might be subjected to bad, neglectful parenting and the parents do not care if their kid behaves awfully. Or you might have just met them in a vulnerable, bad moment. Somehow you know tho. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt or, God forbid, ask whether yoh can help? Offer a supporting smile to someone struggling? Why be hostile instead?
Because even if you took a perfect parent who does everything according to textbook from beginning to end, the kid will still have meltdowns in the most inconvenient and absurdly embarrassing moments in public.
And I have seen way too many parents who devote an insane amount of time and effort to their parenting, are reflected and have the best intentions and approaches, are incredibly level headed and collected (definitely not me tho), and give it their all, still being talked down upon by absolute strangers if they cannot make their preschool kid calm down within ten seconds. If these parents don’t stand a chance in the eye of public scrutiny, then I just don’t even know how a normal parent who doesn’t spend 24/7 thinking about their parenting choices has a chance.
I’ve also seen cases of what I would call bad parenting. Shaming, yelling, ignoring cries for help. But at least I can realise that I don’t know the full story. So unless I have a direct offer of help (tissue, water, bandaid, carrying something, etc) I let them be and hope that they know what they are doing and handling the situation to the best of their ability. I also know a kid who died of shaken baby syndrome because the new partner of their mom couldn’t handle the cries. I’d much prefer he ignored the cries and tantrums instead of killing the two year old boy.
It’s the hypocrisy of at the same time saying “this is your problem, not mine” and “you have to deal with your problem so that I am not inconvenienced.”
What the hell are you even talking about? It’s not complicated. Because you aren’t taking care of the issue, it became mine (and every other person being bothered). I can’t take enough drugs to understand how that wouldn’t be obvious, or how it could be “hypocrisy”. What the actual fuck. I chose not to have kids, you chose to. Therefore I cannot and should not be expected to help them not lose their shit. That is your job. Do it.
Also, you confused me with someone else. I didn’t mention “the village”. You must have also missed my comment where I said that I lost my empathy for you after your ragey diatribes where you shirk all your responsibility.
And for the record, when I see the parent actually trying, I don’t judge them, I just try to get through it and ignore the child’s cries, such as a baby screaming on a plane. What I cannot have compassion for are the people who do not seem to be trying in the least. Which is far too common.
That’s a lot of anger you’re spitting just because someone doesn’t want to hear screaming children. My siblings and I were never allowed to scream in public.
That person really feels entitled to inflict their children’s bad behavior on everyone else around them.
We should sterilize people who’s children tantrum in public, and have social services take their children.
You were not allowed to but I can guarantee that you were still screaming in public.
Hmm my mother says I was quiet and I observed normal amounts of fussiness from my other siblings that was far less than screaming at the top of their lungs. If they had done that, they would have been shushed, comforted, talked to, or taken somewhere else because my parents took responsibility for their own decisions and for what their children did. Instead of pretending it’s hopeless and that whatever impulse we had was fine.
My son was, too. I didn’t raise him strictly (I was a hippie mother, raised in the 70s), but gradually acclimatised him through smaller interactions (small groups to larger, to regional to public), because I had that luxury. Lots of parents over the past 10 years were deprived of that, and it’s been exceptionally difficult to get a child acclimatised to an increasingly hostile world.
People have been far less patient in public – which is entirely understandable, given the circumstances – so many parents and other caregivers (teachers, counsellors, etc) who are trying their best can’t help but be defensive when they hear negativity towards children online, because I’d wager everyone encounters people who are excessively put out by the slightest transgression of a child in their proximity.
It may not be the way the majority react, nor how you react, but it happens regularly enough to become exhausting.
So, in these conversations, I feel like many people are responding to children who are clearly being publicly misparented, and then there are many parents who are thinking of the times someone overreacted to a social faux pas by their child.
I feel like people are misdirecting their anger here.
I think you’re dead on actually. The person I responded to is so defensive because they’ve probably been talked to about it before. No matter how awful it’s been I never have done that. And if they realized that they as a parent are used to the annoyance, but others aren’t, it actually takes restraint not to at least glare. So when that commenter got so pissed, I assume their child is poorly behaved enough for the parent to get told semi-often
Right, and if their child does only occasionally act out (as literally all children do at least a few times in their life), they might assume a commenter is that one guy who is overly put out over a minor social infraction, because just like you’re picturing the stand-out moments you’ve seen when it was bad, so are they. But their stand-out has been someone confronting you because your* eldest started stacking boxes in the aisle whilst you were tending to the baby for 30 seconds.
We’re all thinking of our own extremes and are kinda talking past each other. It seems that, unlike some conversations lately, everyone is kinda right, but it also seems that we need more empathy towards the fact that raising young children has been more societally difficult lately, and kids need less hostility to become emotionally healthy adults.
Thing is, I’ve never shown any hostility and I don’t see how agreeing with “it’s not my problem though” suggests I do. However someone ranting starting with “fuck off” makes me think they suck as a parent.
I show my empathy by putting up with kids everywhere I go. Parents can show their empathy by literally just not ignoring bad behavior. Which in other comments I clarified is the only thing I actually have issues with. The entire store should not be filled with shrill screams while the parent flat out ignores it for 10 minutes. Not too much to ask.
Right, you haven’t. That’s my point.
You’re reacting to the worst parenting you’ve seen in public, but they’re thinking of the worst experiences they’ve had, too – which was people overreacting to relatively small transgressions.
Everyone is talking about a completely different set of people than who they’re talking to. Both of those different sets of people are terrible: the parents who haven’t even tried to teach their children, and also the people who overreact when a child steps out of bounds. You are neither of these, and it looks like neither is your interlocutor.
I don’t know. I got your point, I’m just asserting I don’t think I gave reason for judgment (at least initially , and neither did the person she attacked) whereas that commenter came in swinging and therefore gave every reason
Every child screams in public at some point? That’s normal development. You and I did too. They may just be excited.
Of course if a child is screaming constantly then the parents need to intervene. But expecting children to be seen but not heard is unrealistic by any standard.
Not really. There are kids louder than others. And while there may be some internal aspects to that a lot of that have to do with education. Specially as they grow and education starts becoming more a defining factor.
Yes, I have a lot of anger for people who meet the most vulnerable parts of our society with hostility. I have an immense anger for people who don’t think these vulnerable people in the making have a place in society.
Congratulations on not being allowed to scream in public, ever. Did you good. Your parents had shitty standards and now you want to enforce these on other children so that they will also grow up and hate children. Great idea.
What you don’t understand (or pretend not to) is that you’re the one being judged, not the kids. It seems obvious from this chain that your kids are out of control and you get judged for it. I can think of no other reason you’d act this way.
Honestly, the judgement of parenting is not my main issue here. It’s the hypocrisy of at the same time saying “this is your problem, not mine” and “you have to deal with your problem so that I am not inconvenienced.”
Like, you can’t have it both ways. Either you don’t care, and then other people deserve the right to also not care about your opinion, or you do indeed care, and then it is your problem too. Your quote about not being part of the village is the one that I am saying fuck off to. You want to take yourself out of society and of the context, yet expect the other part to not take themselves out of society. You don’t even decide to look away, you decide to look with destructive criticism. I don’t see how this is supposed to help anyone, you included.
You come off as the type of person who will look at both the kid and the parent in disdain for being a nuisance even when they did something absolutely minor that you could easily avoid, ignore, or get away from. Are you assuming the kid will differentiate between your reaction towards them and their parent? Or that your reaction has no effect on the parent’s treatment of their child, perhaps in a more negative than positive way?
As for the judgement part, as I have pointed out somewhere else, you are seeing a sniplet of a day, of a life, of an hour. Yet you feel like you have enough information to rightfully judge. It’s correct that the kid might be subjected to bad, neglectful parenting and the parents do not care if their kid behaves awfully. Or you might have just met them in a vulnerable, bad moment. Somehow you know tho. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt or, God forbid, ask whether yoh can help? Offer a supporting smile to someone struggling? Why be hostile instead?
Because even if you took a perfect parent who does everything according to textbook from beginning to end, the kid will still have meltdowns in the most inconvenient and absurdly embarrassing moments in public.
And I have seen way too many parents who devote an insane amount of time and effort to their parenting, are reflected and have the best intentions and approaches, are incredibly level headed and collected (definitely not me tho), and give it their all, still being talked down upon by absolute strangers if they cannot make their preschool kid calm down within ten seconds. If these parents don’t stand a chance in the eye of public scrutiny, then I just don’t even know how a normal parent who doesn’t spend 24/7 thinking about their parenting choices has a chance.
I’ve also seen cases of what I would call bad parenting. Shaming, yelling, ignoring cries for help. But at least I can realise that I don’t know the full story. So unless I have a direct offer of help (tissue, water, bandaid, carrying something, etc) I let them be and hope that they know what they are doing and handling the situation to the best of their ability. I also know a kid who died of shaken baby syndrome because the new partner of their mom couldn’t handle the cries. I’d much prefer he ignored the cries and tantrums instead of killing the two year old boy.
What the hell are you even talking about? It’s not complicated. Because you aren’t taking care of the issue, it became mine (and every other person being bothered). I can’t take enough drugs to understand how that wouldn’t be obvious, or how it could be “hypocrisy”. What the actual fuck. I chose not to have kids, you chose to. Therefore I cannot and should not be expected to help them not lose their shit. That is your job. Do it.
Also, you confused me with someone else. I didn’t mention “the village”. You must have also missed my comment where I said that I lost my empathy for you after your ragey diatribes where you shirk all your responsibility.
And for the record, when I see the parent actually trying, I don’t judge them, I just try to get through it and ignore the child’s cries, such as a baby screaming on a plane. What I cannot have compassion for are the people who do not seem to be trying in the least. Which is far too common.
We are not talking about kids babe, we are talking about YOU that is too tired to educate