Yes and no, the main factor are bubbles. Even for the most asshole opinions you can probably find the right bubble where you aren’t shunned for it but get affirming reactions. Algorithms do significantly ease the formation of bubbles but are ultimately not required for it
And I think that’s a lack of memory.
Where were those “algorithms” in flame wars on news groups, mailing lists, fora on the Internet & Web 1.0?
Even when the web became highly commercialized, there remained non-commercial sites of largely unmoderated, anonymized discussion & imageboards driven by the “hivemind”: where were “the algorithms” there?
It’s unrestrained people uninhibited from putting their unfiltered thoughts online to stir discussion: no “algorithms” required.
“The algorithms” steer even the least sophisticated users to the content that captures their attention.
And moderation maintains that attention by subduing those elements that would result in users ragequitting the Internet & missing those ads they scroll past.
I highly doubt a social network would ever lack incentive for increased engagement (via shock value and toxicity or otherwise) in a non-capitalist society.
They may gain popularity, societal influence, or whatever else instead of money. They’re still motivated to deepen that connection.
I meant “the algorithm”, that the parent comment mentions. Designing an algorithm that is driven by clickrate in order to gain more ad revenue is motivated by capitalistic forces.
Why don’t people affected by algos just choose not to use them? I don’t use any content-feeding algorithms beyond basic non-personalized sorting functions that I can examine the code of myself if I wish as here on Lemmy.
But people don’t want that, or they’d be on Lemmy, Mastodon etc. People don’t even use the subscriptions page on YouTube, they prefer the algorithms, they don’t like having agency and they don’t like making decisions. Some people even use shuffle on just algo suggested songs on Spotify.
Many yet, pay with their time via choosing to hear and see ads for this privilege.
Some even pay money for renting algorithmic digital slop. Every time Netflix raises prices, the subscriptions increase. People love the boot.
There’s no stopping trolls completely, but they were self limiting when the internet was more disaggregated and a little less accessible. It’s greedy Big Tech, led by a few people, that weaponized them into world-scale attention farms.
Advertising is a huge enabler yeah, but I have to wonder if they could’ve leveraged other schemes back then, like the Patreon/Onlyfans model, crypto, or whatever.
I still blame the algorithms. Angry people click more => let’s assure they always get more to click.
Yes and no, the main factor are bubbles. Even for the most asshole opinions you can probably find the right bubble where you aren’t shunned for it but get affirming reactions. Algorithms do significantly ease the formation of bubbles but are ultimately not required for it
It’s the for profit corporate capture really. When everyone started thinking of the internet as 5 websites and their bank.
I remember when people would get seriously angry if you posted commercial speech in a communal area of the Internet.
It killed Digg. It’s slowly killing Reddit now.
And I think that’s a lack of memory. Where were those “algorithms” in flame wars on news groups, mailing lists, fora on the Internet & Web 1.0?
Even when the web became highly commercialized, there remained non-commercial sites of largely unmoderated, anonymized discussion & imageboards driven by the “hivemind”: where were “the algorithms” there?
It’s unrestrained people uninhibited from putting their unfiltered thoughts online to stir discussion: no “algorithms” required. “The algorithms” steer even the least sophisticated users to the content that captures their attention. And moderation maintains that attention by subduing those elements that would result in users ragequitting the Internet & missing those ads they scroll past.
Maybe we need to bring back ragequitting?
im chill with algoithms as long as theyre FOSS and don’t manipulate people
You’ve misspelled capitalism.
I highly doubt a social network would ever lack incentive for increased engagement (via shock value and toxicity or otherwise) in a non-capitalist society.
They may gain popularity, societal influence, or whatever else instead of money. They’re still motivated to deepen that connection.
It’s a gray line, as the drive for celebrity isn’t strictly capitalist but is definitely rewarded under capitalism.
I meant “the algorithm”, that the parent comment mentions. Designing an algorithm that is driven by clickrate in order to gain more ad revenue is motivated by capitalistic forces.
Anything bad == capitalism.
Why don’t people affected by algos just choose not to use them? I don’t use any content-feeding algorithms beyond basic non-personalized sorting functions that I can examine the code of myself if I wish as here on Lemmy.
But people don’t want that, or they’d be on Lemmy, Mastodon etc. People don’t even use the subscriptions page on YouTube, they prefer the algorithms, they don’t like having agency and they don’t like making decisions. Some people even use shuffle on just algo suggested songs on Spotify.
Many yet, pay with their time via choosing to hear and see ads for this privilege.
Some even pay money for renting algorithmic digital slop. Every time Netflix raises prices, the subscriptions increase. People love the boot.
So aren’t people to blame?
Do you have any experience with creating a digital good and dealing with end-users?
Honestly no, not at all - why?
Can we tackle the root cause (advertising) somehow?
If there’s no incentive to farm clicks, maybe the circlejerk could stop.
The root cause is billionaires.
There’s no stopping trolls completely, but they were self limiting when the internet was more disaggregated and a little less accessible. It’s greedy Big Tech, led by a few people, that weaponized them into world-scale attention farms.
Advertising is a huge enabler yeah, but I have to wonder if they could’ve leveraged other schemes back then, like the Patreon/Onlyfans model, crypto, or whatever.