So, if the Chinese don’t have an alphabet and use only pictograms comprising of over 6500 characters, how do they type on a keyboard? Do they have really large keyboards with over 6500 keys or do they just say “Screw Mandarin” and type in English (which can’t be true because I’ve seen Chinese characters on webpages/spam emails)? Is there some kind of algorithmic key pressing magic that goes on in order to produce said characters?

  • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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    4 days ago

    Chinese characters’ pronunciations are expressed using the Latin alphabet with accents for tone (for example tóng xué for 同学, or classmate). Therefore modern Chinese typing is done via normal Latin keyboards by typing the pronunciation (without tones because that’s a pain) and choosing between the keyboard’s different guesses for what you intended to write. For example to say “I want a cake” I’d type “woyaogedangao” and get 我要个蛋糕. This is the Pinyin system, which is used in mainland China among others. Taiwan uses a different system and I don’t know how they type with it.

    Source: Am learning Chinese.

    • daggermoon@lemmy.world
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      3 days ago

      How’s learning Chinese going? It’s a beautiful language I’d love to learn someday. I’m trying to learn Esperanto and Spanish. Any advice for someone learning a language?

      • NoneOfUrBusiness@fedia.io
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        3 days ago

        You gotta interact with that language, both in spoken and written (the former is more effective but the latter is more accessible) forms. Of course studying grammar and vocabulary is important, but it’s in the end a stepping stone so you can comprehend native content. Admittedly I have no idea if there’s even something like native Esperanto content, but yeah that’s the gist of it. It’s also best if the content you’re consuming is something you actually enjoy. I for example learned English from memes on Facebook and then Reddit, and learned Japanese from anime and light novels. Something to take into consideration is the n+1 rule, which says that when consuming content of a language you’re trying to learn, you should pick something where you can generally understand all words except one in a sentence. This allows you to use context clues to understand unknown words and makes the whole process more effective.

        Also something to note is that learning two languages at once is, in my experience, not a good idea. They’ll start mixing and pronunciation rules for one will leak into another and generally cause a headache that’s probably not worth it.

        PS: I keep saying consume because I’m too awkward to talk to native speakers, but that’s also a good option from what I hear.

  • Llamatron@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    So, a half remembered Radiolab episode or maybe it was 99% Invisible talked about this. If I remember rightly they did consider changing it because it was so much quicker and easier typing in English and Chinese character set takes up a lot of storage which was a big deal in early computers. Until someone figured they could break down all the Chinese characters into a much smaller selection of base shapes. So you could make a character by pressing a small selection of keys. So it meant a much more manageable keyboard. I think it’s even resulted in quick Chinese typists being faster than English ones.

  • Flax@feddit.uk
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    4 days ago

    Pinyin. They also have fancy keyboards with only 9 buttons and predictive text.

    • Flax@feddit.uk
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      4 days ago

      The fact that I can understand a good part of that scares me

  • xep@fedia.io
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    4 days ago

    Is there some kind of algorithmic key pressing magic that goes on in order to produce said characters

    The umbrella term for the software used for East Asian Language input is “Input Method Editor.” IMEs exist for languages besides CJK also, such as for Vietnamese. Wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input_method

  • ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com
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    4 days ago

    There are a handful of methods of input pinyin is taught in China and Zhuyin is taught in Taiwan.

    Pinyin is romanized and much easier to learn in my opinion but mashes similar sounds together in a confusing way that isn’t obvious. Zhuyin uses a Chinese derives writing system and is more accurate towards how it’s pronounced but a little more difficult to learn especially for foreigners.

    There’s a good podcast episode, maybe overheard at National Geographic on the wubi method and why the creator thinks it’s the best. Essentially pre-pinyin this genius guy came up with another method of input that even today is the fasted way to input Chinese but not as easy to learn as pinyin. Pinyin also carries over some ideological baggage as China wants everyone to learn the same first language at least so the main method of learning and input is pinyin. This is annoying for dialect speakers who have to type pinyin even when the pronunciation is off like Sichuanese or not even the same language like Cantonese.

    Personally pinyin is a genius system that makes the language very easy but it can also be too much of a crutch for foreigners.

  • AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world
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    4 days ago

    Now that they type out characters phonetically, a lot of people don’t remember Chinese characters any more, even though they can still mostly read them, which is starting to be a new problem over there.

    • Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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      4 days ago

      There is over 20k characters and most people know or use like 2 or 3k of them. Educated Chinese know like 6k on average. And it seems every decade the number goes down.

      Curious what it’s evolving into.

      • palordrolap@fedia.io
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        4 days ago

        Illiteracy possibly. Almost certainly more people will be less able to read older texts.

        If that’s going to happen anyway, they could do worse than adopt Pinyin or some variant of it. Or they might prefer something like Bopomofo if they don’t want to use Western characters for whatever reason.

        Either way, any decision like that is likely to be 20-30 years away at minimum, and that’s assuming literacy rates start going down, which they might not. I doubt Xi gives it any thought at all.

        • ERROR: Earth.exe has crashed@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          3 days ago

          Reading is easy. I have been in the US for over a decade, barely ever read chinese, still know how to read basic characters.

          Its writing that is hard.

          Its like, its easy to know what an artist is depicting when looking at art, but its hard to draw that same image from the top of your head. Chinese characters is basically art, complicated af.

          Also, don’t worry about literacy rates. Schools in China be strict af, they make you memorize an entire story, word for word.

  • jagged_circle@feddit.nl
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    3 days ago

    BTW this is a hard problems, and its one very effective way the government installs keyloggers on many people

    • mortimer@lemmy.worldOP
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      4 days ago

      I don’t use Google. I deGoogled my life. Besides, if we just used Google for everything there would be no point communicating at all and thus no point in Lemmy. We could all just ask the Master Google questions, chat with it’s AI and stay locked in our bedrooms eating pizza sponsored by Google.

      • Majorllama@lemmy.world
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        4 days ago

        Method? Idk my roommate for like 6 years was Chinese and he had a keyboard that he could switch between American English and Chinese. He showed me how it worked and the key caps all had a few Chinese symbols next to each English letter and he could cycle between them as needed. He wasn’t as fast typing in Chinese, but it was the only way for him to communicate with certain family as they couldn’t speak or read English at all.

        When his mom visited her laptop also had a similar set up except on hers the English letters were smaller and the. Chinese symbols were bigger. I assume because she bought it in China or something.

        • ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com
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          4 days ago

          I know those types. Was he Chinese not Taiwanese? He might be older then? Parents generation use those methods typically. Not romanized