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“Dell shoots itself in the foot and will only realise in 3 years”
I still remember when XPS was the premiere gaming brand Dell released to compete with the likes of Alienware, only for them to buy Alienware and relegate XPS to a higher budget multimedia catalog.
The names outstayed their welcome, but I cannot applaud them copying Apple’s homework.
Why the fuck did it even take them that long? Alienware acquisition was in 2006.
Dear random strangers,
I have bought Thinkpad T for many years following your advice. Then I moved to Dell Latitude 3 years ago as this was your recommendation. So far, very happy with them!
Where should I go for my next laptop? Is it time for framework?
(I’m looking for 14" business laptops, excellent screen, good audio, light and solid, performance is a nice-to-have, Linux-only)
Yes get a framework.
Thanks!
MSI seems rock solid.
I was under the impression they were more gaming oriented than “business”, am I mistaken then?
XPS used to be the premiere gaming brand Dell released to compete with the likes of Alienware, only for them to buy Alienware and relegate XPS to high end enterprise category. Gaming only means a Nvidia GPU or proper performance but don’t fall for AI PC to Ultrabook kind of categorisations with Windows side of things - Whether you’re into LLM, Content Generation, Data Processing, Blender, Editing, Gaming or even Mining… all will be achieved as long as the CPU-GPU is capable. Razer is one example that copies MacBook Pro aesthetics while having RGBs to cater to both professionals and gamers with one product line but aren’t necessarily with good or respectable after sales service.
I would’ve suggested Asus ROG as well like the G14 for price-to-performance ratio but they’ve been recently falling from grace as well mostly realised by users after the purchase is complete. Not many options are there really globally.
If it matters to you, Michael Dell is pro-genocide:
But which of these new models will have AI?!
I guess it streamlines the naming a little bit, but it sounds like the mapping of the hardware to the names is still a mess. I’ve used XPS laptops for years, but had already decided my next would be a Framework. This just reinforces that decision.
replacing them with three main product lines: Dell (yes, just Dell), Dell Pro, and Dell Pro Max.
PC/Android companies not trying to blatantly rip off Apple challenge: Impossible
The latest XPS laptops really seem like they wanted to copy MacBook Pros from a few years ago with the touch function keys and the barren I/O.
I never really understood the purpose of the XPS line anyway. If you want performance, buy a Precision; if you want a light robust laptop with decent I/O, get a Latitude; if you want a MacBook, get a MacBook.
With that being said the new naming scheme feels like a joke. What’s wrong with recognisable model names?
I never really understood the purpose of the XPS line anyway. I
IMHO
Software development and Media work that can benefit from normal consumer video acceleration. They are a lot cheaper than the Precision line and for non-cad/AI tasks and generally outpreform them. The XPS cases are more durable than the latitude and they come with better options for processors and video cards.
From a business standpoint, they were the best option if you needed a normal video accelerator.
The XPS cases are more durable than the latitude
Eh… Maybe? I worked plenty with Latitudes but never even used a XPS, but Latitudes aren’t bad build-wise. There are entry-level Precisions without dedicated graphics, and at least here in Germany they seem to be cheaper than comparable XPS-Laptops.
I’ve issued about 300 XPS, 50-60 macbooks, ~12 latitudes, and 10 lenovo t-series over the past decade. We’ve now deployed a handful of Legions, but they’ve only been out several months. I had a fan failure, but it had a 10" hair wrapped around the stator.
In all that time, no XPS/Mac hinge wear failures. Not even a little wiggle. You literally have to mechanically crush them before the hinges show any sign of failure. (a few of them did get crushed)
3 latitude screens cracked. Most started to have hinge play after a couple of years. They’re not bad laptops, but the all-metal chassis of the XPS/Macs hold up a lot better from normal every day carry mispaps.
If you don’t need dedicated graphics cards or metal chassis, you can get away with a lot of brands. Precision has never really impressed me.
I never really understood the purpose of the XPS line anyway.
The issue here is that you are comparing it to their business lineup, while it was a consumer product.
Dell XPS (“Extreme Performance System”) is a line of consumer-oriented laptop and desktop computers manufactured by Dell since 1993.
My understanding is that it was their premium consumer line sitting above the more entry level Inspiron line.
The newest generation of xps i shit anyways, good riddance.
i was really happy with my 2019ish xps. But the 2024 one is hot garbage. not just that it arrived with the keyboard not working and Dell taking 3 months to replace it. There’s a total of 2 usb-c ports on it. That’s all the connectors, yes. No, no headphone jack either. And one of those two is taken up with charging, so i’m left with one port if i dont use a dockingstation.
the whole function bar is touch now. you need to hit it 3 times for it to react, who needs Esc anyways. Unless you want to type in the number row, then the function row will pick up random key presses sometimes.
Copilot key no one asked for. Power button is just an unlabelled piece of plastic that looks like filler, not a button. Keyboard sucks in general, too little space between keys, you’re bound to mistype.
linux support is ok, though webcam doesn’t work in firefox, hibernate doesn’t work, every few weeks it’ll just freeze. But otherwise acceptable.
definitely my last dell, i really hate it.
[Edit] Oh and I forgot the best part, when the dell repairman finally repaired it after 3 months, he said “oh a new XPS? Yeah, those suck, every customer hates them especially for software development”
I bought a Precision 5480. Looks like an xps but better. Was so good I bought the 5490 for work a few months later. Would recommend.
Is the precision decent for gaming?
I have a precision 3571 and it’s pretty solid, I’ve been using it as my main gaming computer because it’s better than my old PC, it does have a few drawbacks tho.
Pros:- dedicated Ethernet, HDMI, headphone, and 2 USB ports as well as a second USB-c port besides the charging one that can be converted to other things with a dongle - I usually run it with external keyboard, mouse and monitor
- decent battery, can do a few hours of light gaming on just the battery or a full day of just browser
Cons:
- fan intake doesn’t have enough space when sitting on a flat surface and will overheat easily, so I have to elevate it with something to increase the gap of hang it over the side of my desk. This does solve most overheating problems though.
- for some reason helldivers runs way worse than it has any right to, my theory is that their game engine just really doesn’t work with the weird laptop GPU, an RTX A1000
Ah thank you for the insight on thermal management and on the GPU… Will keep an eye on those points
RTX A1000 is a workstation Card, there’s desktop cards with that branding as well. Nvidia has laptop versions of the gaming card, but the Dell business focused ranges are more marketed for ‘mobile workstation’ type stuff, so they get the workstation cards.
Yea that sounds right. It works quite well for most things, just specifically helldivers and/or it’s anticheat absolutely hates it. On lowest settings I get like 30-40fps depending on how much I upscale with freezes every 10 seconds lasting .5-1 seconds. Simply unplayable, so I’ve gone back to using my 1080ti in my pc
Would recommend to not recommend Dell to future buyers, it’s not Apple vs Samsung like in the smartphone options of US.
That’s a very weird take. I didn’t blanket recommend Dell, but a specific model.
Fr, Especially when they Maintain DKMS(Not a Device ik but used by most Distros).
I mean… Dell Pro Max ¯_(ツ)_/¯
I remember the XPS Was “Ubuntu Certified” thats what i think when i first see the Laptop.
Prepared to be heartbroken ~
Weird, isn’t that the only Dell brand people view as worth having?
I have a 2018 XPS 15. I really like the machine but have also had more problems than any other laptop I’ve owned. The chassis fell apart spontaneously because an internal screw mount snapped. 1 month repair. Had to redo the CPU thermal paste to resolve overheating issues. Had driver issues with audio coming back from sleep that took me a year to figure out. Had to turn off Thunderbolt to get USB-C back functioning. Memory card reader keeps unmounting itself. Doesn’t have TPU, so I had to jump through hoops to get W11, which I need for some work stuff. Just a lot of drama. The screen is still wonderful to this day, and it has a nice keyboard, weight, and performance with 32 gb ram and faster SSD, but I don’t think I’ll get a new Dell. If I’m going to spend so much time tinkering with the laptop, I’d rather have a Framework that’s fully designed for tinkering
As an IT guy, recent (past five years) XPS laptops we gave to execs were pretty bad. Smaller, yes, but I found the Latitudes were better in terms of build quality. It is a small sample size though as most execs preferred MacBooks.
Imo this kind of shows the basic problem with the xps line. As I understand it it was basically the premium consumer line, not something meant for business use. Meaning it had the nice specs on paper, but not the durability you’d need in a setting with extensive use and where downtime means serious money. But as you demonstrate this distinction was too blurry.
Latitude is superior to the XPS line for business.
And man did they have a bad run of XPS’s there for a while with their batteries swelling up.
They should replace the XPS name with the Longitude. And then the Altitude.
Ha!
Latitude 7490 had a string of bad batteries too. Our XPS units kept having things disconnect internally (even after a motherboard swap with warranty). The latitude 7420 onwards have been super solid!
Used to be a field repair tech for several oems. The XPS usually suffered hinge issues. They decided it was a good idea to use press fitted standoffs in plastic to anchor the screen hinges…and the plastic is not very thick.
I believe the precision series kind of took over. They are high-end models but not really built for gaming. At this point, the XPS wasn’t built for gaming either, so I guess having 2 high-end lines just didn’t make sense?
Edit: I should have read the article first! I guess all the names are going away. I don’t care for the new names either, but both were pretty bad. The only difference is we got used to what it is now despite how little sense it made.
the top level names are fine I guess, but all the sub tier names are too much.
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Some companies prefer Dell as an American held company; for security reasons. Dell’s Precision line supports high-end needs such as 3d modeling, theoretical testing for real world applications, statistical analysis of large datasets, etc.
That is where Dell fits. And yes, they have consumer models. I don’t care for the latter.
I have a precision and an XPS,
Chassis is the same, keyboard, touch screen, pad are the same. Processor, disk, Wi-Fi and memory options are the same. Warranty and on premises technician same.
Prices are not the same, and sometimes precision has more GPU options. And I think a 17 inch screen, but these are a different line under the same brand name.
But one has official Linux support and the other doesn’t. But since all hardware is the same, surprise, it just works.
We’ve been flirting with Lenovo legion. In my business we need strong video cards. Shipping white boxes and monitors to people is a real issue with work from home.
We were solely running XPS for years.
The legion aren’t bad, The worst of it is the power brick is a barrel connector. No running off of USB power delivery.
One of the units had a failed fan. I tore it apart and found the part number, I was actually pretty pissed off because you couldn’t buy just the fan you had to buy the whole heat distribution block with both fans and the heat pipes and everything. But then I found the part was only about 50 bucks. Dell wouldn’t even sell me parts without me being certified. So I bought the Lenovo heat block and it showed up with pre-compounded processor, GPU, and VRM pads. It was super impressive and for 50 bucks honestly it was a steal.
I own a Lenovo legion and the main issue is that it sucks on battery, it’s heavy, and the power brick is huge and expensive (I think close to 300€). Other than that it’s a beast. But if you have legions for business, you’ll struggle in meetings were people don’t want to bother with power cables and supplies.
Good point!
We’re mostly wfh, If we still had sufficient physical meetings, It wouldn’t break the bank to stuff a few bricks in every room.
The battery life is also significantly better if you’re doing normal meeting stuff.
I’d like people to actually read the article before commenting. They are renaming their laptops. They’ll continue producing what would’ve been XPS.
“Dude, you’re getting a Dell Max Pro Premium” doesn’t quite have the same ring to it…
But will name them Max Pro, killing the XPS brand. You know, like the title says
But many commenters think they will just stop producing these laptops. You know, like my comment explains.
what the fuck?
why kill your best brand?
ohhh…because you outsourced your entire product development teams to “offshore units” and haven’t innovated since 2015.
Sounds eerily similar to Intel although they’re trying good with the GPU side of things.
What Intel makes up for in GPU, they loose in CPU.
What AMD makes up for in CPU, they loose in GPU.Now we need Nvidia to see whether it will be a full blown flop or full-on dominatiom.
At that point (with Nvidia) you’d only need a CPU, RAM and a MB to make a nearly all Nvidia PC.
An Nvidia case exists already, GPU, networking (NIC, Switch and cabling)Nvidia would likely prefer to sell a whole package as Apple.
Better headline: Dell kills all brands
Given that Dell has lost most of it’s old reputation in the last couple of years, not surprising that radical moves were taken. Trying to navigate Dells product range was a quick way to get a headache.
It seems like the higher ups doesn’t care or even feel like it, they just want to be Apple… first the possibly even worse version of Touchbar and now this^
They’re like 20 years too late to start copying Apple here. Apple had their shit together with their product line for a good while after Steve Jobs returned and eliminated the absolute insanity of Apple’s mid-90s lineup, which had at least three times more models than any sane person would find useful.
But recently, Apple went off the deep end. Boggles the mind that “Pro Max” ever made it past the brain-mouth barrier in a boardroom, let alone into an official product lineup.
Every company’s lineup these days:
Pro > Pro Max > Pro Max Ultra > Pro Max Ultra Black Edition
The internal culture was pretty much Steve Jobs dependent where he balanced everything to ward off the extremes (like Jony Ive’s design obsession over all reality) which just got succeed by a soporific guy who’s all in supply chain and bargaining to extend that role. Pretty much if Nvidia loses Jensen~
Agreed. I used to be a hardcore Dell fan, especially for their monitors, but I tried a new model this year and it was such horrible garbage that I had to return it. Their support was nearly non existent.
When their Latitude laptop line moved away from the C/D/E lines I knew it was gonna be trouble. They used to have hardware on par with Apple and almost everything in a generation (I.e E-series) was interchangeable and it was easy to work on.
Yeah, I vastly prefer HP Pro/Elitebooks and Thinkpads over anything in the Dell business line.
Which reputation? I used to work for a dell heavy hoster with thousands of dell servers almost 20 years ago - and apart from them being cheap I have nothing good to say about them. Worst is the remote management - several generations of DRACs all broken in new and interesting ways, and support is useless. You just get better discounts at that scale, which for a business owner drowns out the complaints of the tech people.
Notebooks also have similar bugs over generations - and nowadays they also feel even cheaper than they used to be.
Displays were somewhat acceptable - given you’re fine to work around the DPMS bugs they have in pretty much every display for the last two decades - but their display selection page is unusable and lacks most interesting details. So it is better to just get something you can check out in a shop.
