Hey Microsoft, if you want me to upgrade to Windows 11, you could start by removing the completely arbitrary requirement to have TPM 2.0.
Why do we even need a toilet paper machine 2.0 to use windows 11?
Joke aside, yeah what’s up with that? People been able to bypass it and have no problem.
Rumour is it’s literally only there as an olive branch to hardware manufacturers to force people to buy new hardware. There’s literally no technical reasons for it.
it’s one of those things where it does legitimately improve security, but for them to require it the way they did when almost no hardware at the time has it is pretty transparent.
there are plenty of other hardware requirements that could improve security if they arbitrarily decided to require them. they did this for the rain you describe, but have the plausible deniability of saying that it’s for security.
basically, the same bullshit line that’s used to justify half of the bullshit unpopular changes that anyone pushes anywhere.
“it’s for security” - no it’s not, as a for profit company chances are pretty good we can prove you don’t actually give a shit about customer date if we look close enough at your practices. it’s for profit.
“it’s for the environment” - admirable thought, too bad that’s not profitable. I don’t believe you mr. for profit company.
“for the kids”- it you have ever tried to talk to a parent after the subject of their kids safety comes up you’ll see why they always do for this in. it’s the deepest, most primal, and least logical part of our brain. most parents become slovering fucking cavemen the second you disagree with whatever they’ve been programmed to believe will protect their kids. it’s just too easy to manipulate people with. if you say you’re great to protect kids I’m instantly skeptical and need a lot of proof.
it’s one of those things where it does legitimately improve security, but for them to require it the way they did when almost no hardware at the time has it is pretty transparent.
Windows has been requiring hardware manufactures to include TPM 2.0 support since July 2016 , and Windows 11 was released in October 2021. The truth is Microsoft did everything they could to wait for people to get their hands on new hardware (5 years). Data shows that 83% of businesses were victims of firmware attacks, which is exactly what TPM helps with. Like it or not Microsoft’s primary customer are businesses, since they are the one who buy hundreds of licenses and pay for technical support. TPM requirement was not a surprise to anyone:
In fact, in the 55 pages of minumum specifications for Windows 10 hardware TPM is mentioned 60 times.
A quote from the link above.
there are plenty of other hardware requirements that could improve security if they arbitrarily decided to require them. they did this for the rain you describe, but have the plausible deniability of saying that it’s for security.
What other hardware could they require to prevent firmware attacks?
“it’s for security” - no it’s not, as a for profit company chances are pretty good we can prove you don’t actually give a shit about customer date if we look close enough at your practices. it’s for profit.
As shown in the link above, it is for security. The profit comes when businesses keep buying Windows instead of moving to MacOS for lack of security in Windows machines.
“it’s for the environment” - admirable thought, too bad that’s not profitable. I don’t believe you mr. for profit company.
Apple has shown you can have products made of recycled material while still being high quality and highly profitable. If you want environmentally friendly products you need to pay more, because like you said, it is not profitable to sell those products at the same price as before. So you either complain about price or about the environment, can’t have both.
“for the kids”- it you have ever tried to talk to a parent after the subject of their kids safety comes up you’ll see why they always do for this in. it’s the deepest, most primal, and least logical part of our brain. most parents become slovering fucking cavemen the second you disagree with whatever they’ve been programmed to believe will protect their kids. it’s just too easy to manipulate people with. if you say you’re great to protect kids I’m instantly skeptical and need a lot of proof.
The truth is most surveillance technologies will help protect the kids. This is a fact. If you gave the police access to everyone’s phone all the time kids would objectively be safer on the internet. Yes, this is used as an excuse to attack our privacy, but it does work, and there’s no reason to be skeptical. Anyways, this is not on topic to windows TPM.
Apple will happily throw away a good machine to sell you a new one, their eco friendlyness and repairability scores are self scored bullshit.
Having police access to everyone’s phone would not make people safer. You would not have enough police to monitor and it is a backdoor for hacking.
Just like Intel Management Engine that gave hackers passwordless entry into machines. Having control like that is not safety.
Plus anyone with physical access is going to defeat security anyway.
My linuxOS has a MOC signed by microsoft, an OS can work on TPM with a signature…hackers will find a way to spoof into it
Apple will happily throw away a good machine to sell you a new one, their eco friendlyness and repairability scores are self scored bullshit.
That’s beside the point. They make their machines with recycled materials, and it’s a fact. There are people using 10 year old MacBooks and iPads, so I don’t think anybody is being forced to “throw away” a good machine.
Having police access to everyone’s phone would not make people safer. You would not have enough police to monitor and it is a backdoor for hacking.
That was an example. What they would do is have computer scan your data for illegal content (like they planned to do with iCloud), and any flagged data would get checked by an actual person. If you think this wouldn’t help protect people, you are lying to yourself. Whether this is a privacy issue or not is not the point, the point is that “it’s for the children” is a valid concern for implementing this kind of stuff and not just something to be skeptical about.
Just like Intel Management Engine that gave hackers passwordless entry into machines. Having control like that is not safety.
You are still evading the issue at hand. I never claimed backdoors are not a security issue, I said they would definitely help protect the children, as I repeated above.
Plus anyone with physical access is going to defeat security anyway.
Obviously. The point of things like TPM is to prevent remote hacking. Who claimed otherwise? You cannot guarantee the safety of any system if the attacker has physical access. I assume your computer doesn’t have a log in password since anyone with physical access can defeat it, right?
My linuxOS has a MOC signed by microsoft, an OS can work on TPM with a signature…hackers will find a way to spoof into it
Yes, nothing is foolproof. Should we stop advancing security just because it’s not perfect? Should we stop using SSL/TLS because BREACH and POODLE exploits exist? Should we stop using passwords because someone can brute force them? Maybe we should also throw away memory and thread safe languages because there are some corner cases where they can be used in an unsafe manner? Listen to yourself.
You sir are deluded. And maybe that is by ignorance, Please go watch any of countless Louis Rossman videos about how apple claims a device irrepairable and he fixes it for 5 dollars. Etc. Soldered RAM, faulty switches , bad display cable, all easy fixes that the geniuses will suggest you buy new because it will cost as much to fix. Apple is an e waste producing company.
As for scanning peoples data, it already proved that it did more harm than good. CSAm people just change behaviors ur, and you have legit people having their accounts frozen and police called when their doctor during covid asked for photos of skin rashes. It is hard for an innocent guy to live down arrest for false child porn. Don’t drink all the koolaid.
I don’t know what it means to require it since 2016, because I built my PC in late 2017, and I built it overspecced for my needs because I didn’t want to need to build another or upgrade it in just 5 years. My processor, I’ve been told by Microsoft’s tooling, doesn’t support Windows 11.
What I wrote there is too generalized. OEMs are the ones required to ship TPM 2.0 enabled devices since 2016, you could still build your own PCs without TPM 2.0. Remember main Microsoft customer is companies who don’t build their own PCs but buy them from manufacturers.
The thing is, my mobo was, as far as I can tell (based on the release date of the 1.0 version of its firmware), released in 2017. I didn’t go out of my way to avoid TPM 2.0, I just bought recent hardware made by reputable manufacturers, and built a computer out of them. The fact that Microsoft arbitrarily decided a less than 4 year-old computer couldn’t run on their new operating system is pretty galling.
What I heard (on here, and I hope it’s a vicious rumor) is that TPM 2.0 comes with backdoors accessible to Microsoft via the OS so that a significant chunk of the computer belongs to Big MS and not to the end user, and it will squeal and cause problems if the end user tries to take it back.
The whole point of TPM 1.0 hypothetically was to allow a larger secondary encryption key of a device to be accessible only by a small user-provided key (say a four-digit PIN), and requiring use of the key-query software to run to get the secondary key. A limited number of chances with longer delays with each wrong answer heightens security.
But this pissed off government law enforcement across the world, who want backdoors for when they want to crack the phone of a very important criminal.
It would be nice if Apple, Google and Microsoft had more respect for their end users than they do national and corporate institutions, but we know this isn’t really the case, so it’s at least plausible that TPMs 1.0 or 2.0 come pre-backdoored. It doesn’t hurt that this is exactly what FBI and NSA want even though (Pre-9/11 and Pre-PATRIOT) NSA is supposed to be assuring that no-one, not even police can crack our secure communication protocols.
Despite efforts to look into it, I’ve yet to get an answer I can fully trust whether or not they are backdoored. But since Microsoft is notorious for exactly this kind of bullshit since the 1980s, I assume it’s true that TPMs are backdoored until I find convincing information otherwise.
Please don’t spread bullshit conspiracy theories.
You have trustworthy sources to indicate it’s a bullshit conspiracy theory? Cite them!
Otherwise you can express your skepticism without being hostile. Thanks.
You are making the claims, the onus is on you to cite your sources.
Do you have any trustworthy sources to back up these bullshit claims? I didn’t think so. Now, fuck off.
Yeah, I claimed it was a plausible rumor, and given Win10 and Win11 are already spyware and resistant to end-user full control, I already have strong cause to distrust Microsoft, which is what I said.
So chill your reactor before it melts down. Unless you want a block, because this is how you get a block.
HP has a tool to upgrade TPM firmware from 1.x to 2.0.
It’s for OS level DRM. And I would bet some spying too.
The toilet paper machine is to mop up all the shit they keep dropping on us.
In lieu of the bullshit replies you have gotten, I will answer.
TPM is a security measure. By default your hard drive on Windows 11 will be protected with bit locker. Bit locker is hard drive encryption. It does more stuff but that’s the broad strokes. This means that if your laptops get stolen or your computer gets stolen or whatever it is no longer in danger of all of your information and files being taken.
There are other advantages as well. For example a TPM could make it much easier for anti-cheat to detect cheating. However, no games use it yet because not every system has a TPM, blah blah blah.
TPM is actually a really good thing. The problem is that the vast majority of systems do not have a TPM header and therefore cannot add a TPM. This means that those systems have to be replaced.
I work for a managed service provider so I deal with a lot of companies that refuse to upgrade their systems. Thanks to Windows 11 they are being forced to upgrade systems that are up to 15 years old and basically unusable. This is actually kind of a godsend. There are downsides to this yes, but it is not just some ill thought out idea.
Huh, neat. Thanks for the informative reply. My system is actually ancient at this point(gen4 intel cpu), i only use it to play games and youtube/movie, while i still able to run some game, it does feel aged. I guess it’s really time to get it changed.
I had an HP Zbook Workstation. With TPM1.x Initially said get ready for W11, then months later meeage: this model fails TPM 2.0 requirement, CPU OK. I used HP firmware tool to upgrade from TPM 1.x to TPM2.0. A recheck with W11 a few months later: TPM OK, CPU no good. Last month the message about the system not being upgradeable to W11 disappeared and replaced with a link: to learn more about W11. Wtf. Do they even know what system requirements they need?
The system requirements were picked by their marketing team
Sadly, Microsoft doesn’t need to do anything to have you to upgrade to Windows 11: you just need to buy a new device in the mainstream market. Aside from building your rig from scratch, of course.
SteamDeck is a good example: Microsoft didn’t do nothing to promote the handheld PC gaming industry, even if Valve shown that their free and licenseless OS proved to be the best one… most OEM deliver Window’s only PC handheld, because they are afraid to lose the market segment of those who pirate PC games.
If any of those who pirate PC games are reading here: for now all my pillaged goods are working fine on Steam Deck and on Desktop Linux.
So you have to do anything different? Install wine, or special install requirements?
I’m running Nobara, so the basics like wine, Nvidia drivers … are already set up OOTB. There are multiple ways, but i like the way Lutris does it:
- Click on “Add a game”
- Select “Install Windows Game from an executable”
- give it a name, if you use the name identifier as it is used on lutris.net you get the box art automatically
- click through, select install/prefix directory, select setup.exe file
- install as normal, install on the c: drive (only thing to note is if the game is using stuff like .net or vc runtimes then don’t install them and just remember which ones you will need)
- If runtimes are needed: run “winetricks” to add those, if you want to install patches: use “run exe inside wine prefix” (both are in the menu next to the Windows-logo Button)
- Play Game
Heroic Launcher’s installation is a bit more streamlined, but i found Lutris can do more stuff - i don’t know if i would have managed to mod my (owned) Battletech installation (BTA3062) so easily with Heroic. (involved setting a bunch of Envvars and dll overrides)
That’s become quite the handy “don’t upgrade this to Windows 11” switch to have.
I think when the time comes I’ll give Windows 11 ltsc a look which has tpm be optional. Less bloatware too.
Use Rufus to install it, you don’t need tpm. It also debloats it
It’s a good OS, despite what the Linux teenagers on Lemmy would have you believe
It’s important to note that if you do this, chances are that feature updates will not install without a TPM.
You mean “fullscreen ads for Linux”
Hopefully this nonsense doesn’t affect the LTSC version. Using that has been a breath of fresh air - still Windows, less crap. Not even the store is installed by default.
It doesn’t. I doubt it will in the future, but its possible.
I still would recommend moving to another solution though.
LTSC?
Long Term Service Channel. It’s a branch that is used by devices that may not be recommended to be on the latest version of Windows, for example ATMs. When the device needs to essentially be consistently reliable and not received feature updates that could potentially break it.
Basically, yeah. Features don’t come out often but you still get security updates on the regular which is what’s important. Things don’t change which means things don’t typically break.
Yes, but the entirety of windows is crap.
Windows has ease on its side. I’ve never had to learn CMD to achieve basic tasks in Windows and that’s one of, if not the biggest point against Linux.
In my opinion, not entirely, the underlying NT kernel seems better designed than Linux.
Windows 7 was very good, later versions were turned into crap.Better how?
From what I read through the years, NT actually had design behind it, while Linux is a pile of improvised hacks roughly following an “ancient” 1970s design.
Of course that might be wrong, and I’m using Linux almost continuously on last year and it seems solid, the only annoyances being installing stuff, and things designed with 1970s mentality that forces the use of the terminal.Try OpenSUSE it has Yast2 GUI GTK. Graphical manager for packages, one-click install of downloaded RPMs from web sources. Full GUI for all system settings, services, etc. No CLI needed.
I never seen a ad, is this because I debloated 10?
I also seem to have a fully housebroken windows 10. I know my PC has TPM, so it should be compatible with windows 11, but so far, it hasn’t shit inside
I only use windows at work
I sometimes use doors as well, or I get weird looks
I pirate a copy of Enterprise LTSC specifically to avoid bullshit like this.
Ohh that’s a terrible thing to do, where would you go to do that so I stay far far away
Ye’d be digging yourselves a MASS GRAVE if ye did go there.
Specifically not massgravedotdev, and stay far away from 11 Enterprise IoT LTSC and the permanent activation. 👀
Got one yesterday. I’ve already made up my mind that I’m likely to switch to Linux Mint on my current PC and run that till it drops dead. Because I’m sure as shit not messing with or upgrading my three year old PC over something asinine like a TPM module. I don’t even want a new Windows. I like my PC just fine the way it is.
If Microsoft thinks they can force me to Windows 11, I fucking dare them. I switched to Mac before and I’m not afraid to switch to any other OS either.
Got it
I always Alt+F4 when they pop up, gets rid of them until the next time
There’s a very tiny option in the bottom left that says “keep using windows 10”
Blah blah blah
I always laugh at these comments. Edge is fantastic, same with 0365. But yeah libre is soooo much better.
365 is helpful, but feature parity between app and web app is not perfect, and files done in web have compatibility issues when somebody opens on app version. Also have had issues on collaboration where somebody left their laptop open with autosave on, so all my changes and corrections kept getting overridden whenever their system autosaved. Terrible implementation.
I run the team that does MSP and cloud services for 1000 people. MS365 works mostly great. This community is somewhat mistaken what non technical, gamers and business users value.
I personally pretty much stopped using Word Editors, and wouldn’t use a proprietary one if I did, but I recognise they’re still pretty important for the majority of people.
I worked with a company that used O365 last year. Was kinda underwhelmed. Desktop Apps still don’t really work well with simultaneous editing of a document, Web Apps don’t have all the features of the desktop versions (didn’t matter that much in Word, but was annoying in Excel).
I think that the online collaboration implementation of Google’s Suite is still a lot more seamless. O365 Desktop and Web stuff feels like a weird attempt to mix two separate products.
For most use cases I’ve seen, you could probably give the user any modern office suite, whether it be proprietary or open source, and they wouldn’t mind too much.
Independent of all privacy concerns, I personally just don’t like Edge’s UX, but I recognise that it’s a serviceable Browser.
I don’t think your experience is what most people experience. The vast majority of sharing issues is education on role and user based sharing.
If you understand the difference between a kink that works for everyone and the difference between a view only and edit permissions then it works just fine.
Lolol just upgrade.
MS has to constantly deal with this shit from users who refuse to install a damn patch.
Windows 11 from Windows 10 is not installing “a damn patch”.
Also Windows 11 is terrible. Along with Edge WebView2, the entirety of the O365 suite now (see Edge WebView2), etc.
An upgrade would be wiping the machine to install Linux or buying a Mac.
Not only that, but hundreds of millions of PCs can’t ‘just upgrade’ because Microsoft has arbitrarily blocked them from doing so without resorting to hacks in order to bypass those blocks.
All these people are future linux enjoyers, they just don’t know it yet lol
Edge webview2 is used by some non Microsoft things as well, so I have to unblock it occasionally while it fucks my low bandwidth connection.
And it somehow unblocks itself occasionally, and is the only thing to have ever done that which is wild, but there’s probably a simple reason for it that idk. It still doesn’t deserve internet privileges 99% of the time.
