Green politicians from across Europe on Friday called on U.S. Green Party presidential candidate Jill Stein to withdraw from the race for the White House and endorse Democrat Kamala Harris instead.
“We are clear that Kamala Harris is the only candidate who can block Donald Trump and his anti-democratic, authoritarian policies from the White House,” Green parties from countries including Germany, France, Denmark, Italy, the Netherlands, Ireland, Estonia, Belgium, Spain, Poland and Ukraine said in a statement, which was shared with POLITICO ahead of publication
Too bad they just noticed she’s a stooge.
Too bad she’s a ruzzian shill and supports the whole of Europe being nuked by the orcs
Sheesh, you’re a bit late, folks. Besides, Stein is in the race specifically for the purpose of helping Trump win, so she wouldn’t listen to them anyway.
I mean she has been running since 2012, are you saying that she has been a Trump plant this entire time?
If you are voting for Jill Stein it probably means that you have a distain for both political parties and want a candidate that’s not anointed without a primary to vet them AND you don’t want a authoritarian figure that will speed up our failing infrastructure and decline as a nation.
Trump has been running since 2016, so yeah, pretty close.
And frankly, even in 2012, her campaign has never been shy about taking help from the Republicans to spoil elections for the Democrats. Even if Stein isn’t an active collaborator with them, she is at best a useful idiot.
Stein should shove off to fucking Moscow.
Too late. Ballots printed.
Mine was printed day of, just to be a pedantic jerk 🙂↕️
She won’t.
Of course she won’t. She is Putin’s puppet.
I never get tired of showing this photo.
It is ten years old so you are not exaggerating.
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/2017/06/jill-stein-says-nothing-happened-at-her-dinner-with-putin/ https://www.newsweek.com/jill-stein-ties-vladimir-putin-explained-1842620 I’ll never get tired of posting this in response.
You get that nothing had to happen at the dinner, right? That’s not how networking works.
Okay, then prove that something happened. I’m not the one implying she’s some sort of Russian asset with 0 evidence beyond a photo. That’s you.
I don’t have to prove anything happened. She was put at a dinner table with Putin in Moscow. Something that only happens if Putin finds you useful. He doesn’t sit at random tables and strike up conversations with whoever he finds.
You put the rest together.
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Your evidence for Jill Stein being bribed by Putin in her sitting next to a German ambassador at a table, and Putin sitting down in a seat at the other side of the table?
The Democrat misinformation campaign is in full swing here.
You made the assertion, so the onus is on you to prove it.
F to doubt what she says
Of course she says nothing happened. It’s like a child getting caught with their hand in the cookie jar covered in crumbs, and they will insist they did nothing wrong. Never expect someone to be honest when it’s against their interests.
No one is saying anything had to happen, but she was certainly invited there there for a reason.
You don’t get put at a dinner table in Moscow with Putin unless Putin has a good reason for wanting you there.
He doesn’t just sit down with random people and hope they have a good time.
Shit, and all this time I thought he just had a passion for entertaining!
That’s basically what this person seems to be suggesting. Like she just happened to be sitting there and Putin and all of his closest people were like, “let’s go see who this lady is and what she’s up to!”
Well, sure. I’m not saying that Russians didn’t have a nefarious reason to invite her there. It’s entirely possible and maybe even likely that they did it because they saw a third party candidate as a useful tool to sow some sort of election discord in the US. But that claim would be entirely different than the claim that Jill Stein did it because she’s an asset or that this was her idea or purpose for being there. I’m disputing the latter, not the former, because her attending a gala for RT is not evidence of collusion and this was the implication being made. I can find all sorts of pictures online of Hillary Clinton and other politicians having dinners with Trump or Putin, but that doesn’t mean the photos are evidence that they were in collusion with either of them.
I like how you are completely overlooking the fact that I never made any actual claim about her being a Russian asset.
You kept bringing up the asset thing.
This is what I wrote:
The asset part was a complete invention of yours.
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Want to upvote your comment, but you’re at 69… Dilemma
It’s only a dilemma if you’re 12.
That would be against the entire purpose of her campaign.
Havent they pretty much admitted that shes running cause republicans have paid for her campaign, to try and split votes from democrats?
European Greens have always hated the US party. This may seem like politically aligned people asking a fellow traveler to stop but it’s not.
The US “Green Party” isn’t really a party or even a cohesive group of any sort. They don’t actually stand for anything other than “not the democrat”. Oh, sure they throw stuff onto a platform for the election to try to convince everyone they stand for something but mostly it’s a small fraction of former Democrats who come out of the woodwork every 4 years to obfuscate the presidential election with the net end result of taking a handful or votes that would have otherwise gone to a democratic candidate. After this election is over they will vanish again as though they were never there. This has been their modus operandi since their inception.
Eh, I would say that while there isn’t a huge amount of alignment between many of Europe’s Green parties, they all kinda hate each other for different reasons. The German and UK Greens have gone through a lot of shit over the years for their stances on Israel (way before the conflict), alongside Nuclear energy.
It’s often been a long-running joke that the main barrier for the greens in power is themselves. They’d rather attack each other over issues that don’t affect the electorate than try to mount a realistic challenge to govern.
Jill Stein is funded by Russia. Every multicellular organism knows this by now.
You’d be suprised. My partner is very tuned in to politics and watches Hasan near daily, reads news, talks with me and her friends but casually mentioned she would be voting for Stein instead of Harris. I very quickly pulled up the Putin dinner party pic and a handful of articles explaining the various connections. It all totally flabbergasted her and she decided on Harris despite her, very legitimate, reservations over genocide. Realistically we’re in a very blue state that will safely go Harris so it wouldn’t matter, but I’m certain other people will still fall into the same trap.
Yup, even my friend Fred the Fungi was just yapping about this, told me to follow the money.
Yarp, and still voted for her because harris is that bad and hasnt shifted at on key issues that actually relate to the role of president. Like supporting labor (kahn, no strike busting, etc) and follwing the law with respect to weapon sales/delivery.
Focus your energy on getting harris to move, its a lot easier than getting people like me to move; we actually have moral values, harris doesnt. Though at this point its unlikely there are many hold outs waiting for her. Cast my ballot a week ago. Good luck in your efforts! Im rooting for you 🤷
At least you are not worried about all the extra people in the world that will get hurt by your reactionary stance leading to a trump presidency. If you can’t have your way, let the world burn… Gotcha.
In this case you either vote against actual fascism or risk it taking over.
If you can’t have your way, let the world burn… Gotcha.
That is literally the rationale for lots of people. I’ve heard it spoken verbatim, and heck, when I was young and stupid, I said it myself. It’ll hasten the collapse and move us more quickly toward a glorious new future!
trump isn’t winning my state; can’t do much more to help you there mate. I’m sorry harris is running such a shit campaign she’s struggling against fucking trump.
but threats need to be backed up by action or they’re toothless, just look at how netanyahu has ignored biden.
“My moral values allow me to vote against my best interests and the welfare of anyone who doesn’t align with the christofascist right. I have such a difficult time with concepts like “logical thinking” and “cause and effect” that I can rationalize such a terrible decision and even pretend that I’m the solution!”
against my best interest? my best interests are in trump not winning. which is assured in my state. its not necessarily harris winning. so my best interests are in assuring there is enough pressure on harris post election and part of that is making sure my critters know votes will be lost for them in the future for israel.
As predicted, rationalization.
Mmm yes people explaining their reasoning is so horrible. :) its almost like you cant justify shit and only have pithy lesser evil nonsense to justify your support for a shit candidate. 🤷
First step to not having lesser evil candidates: dont support genocides. Wild i know. Maybe you should try it?
Is it hard to type with Putin’s dick in your mouth?
no, why would it be his cock is so tiny it doesn’t obstruct my view of the screen at all. poor thing.
No
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I might be more tempted to believe this if I wasn’t regularly accused of the same thing by every Democrat on Lemmy.
It holds a little more weight when you’ve been photographed at a formal dinner alongside every single Russian head of state.
But these accusations don’t even make sense.
Why would Putin benefit from having a Russian plant as the presidential candidate of the Green Party? Does he mistakenly think the Green Party has some influence in American politics?
And how could he known his plant would be selected by the party as their presidential candidate? Is he psychic? Is the entire Green Party comprised of Russian plants?
If his goal was for the Greens to be a spoiler for the Dems, surely they’d be just as much of a spoiler no matter who their candidate was. In fact, without Stein, they could probably find a better candidate and be more of a spoiler.
I’m not worried about Stein being a Russian plant because it literally would make no difference to anything.
Why would Putin benefit from having a Russian plant as the presidential candidate of the Green Party? Does he mistakenly think the Green Party has some influence in American politics?
They aren’t intended to win, they’re intended to do exactly what they’re doing - selecting particular wedge issues to split the Democrat vote and give them a lower total percentage vs Republicans, the other main player. In this case the Green Party was originally set up to champion environmental issues, hence their name, but have also been a convenient shunt for the Israel/Palestine situation and Harris’ percieved refusal to budge on such.
Everyone involved knows that a third party has no realistic chance of victory in the US, so setting up a third-party honeypot to gather passionate far-left voters away from the Democrat vote is a potent power move for the Republican party. Every percent point lost by the Democrats is one gained for the Republicans, even if the point doesn’t go to them. With margins as thin as they usually are, this is significant. Putin in particular cares about this because Trump is vocally friendly towards him and Democrats and their voters are not.
And how could he known his plant would be selected by the party as their presidential candidate? Is he psychic? Is the entire Green Party comprised of Russian plants?
I can’t find proof of this with a cursory web search, but it’s suspected that the entire Green Party is primarily funded via Russian interests. If nothing else it is known factually that Jill Stein has attended at least one private dinner with Russian heads of state and has appeared on Russian state media propaganda quite a lot. I doubt the entire party is a Russian op but significant portions of its leadership including candidate Stein are pretty clearly compromised.
If his goal was for the Greens to be a spoiler for the Dems, surely they’d be just as much of a spoiler no matter who their candidate was. In fact, without Stein, they could probably find a better candidate and be more of a spoiler.
Personally I feel that Stein may just be more who they got rather than who they wanted, and this may be where the plan is starting to fall apart. A truly passionate, honest far-left firecracker candidate probably would be an excellent spoiler, and pull many honest far-left votes, but they also wouldn’t be susceptible to foreign influence. They’re choosing to take the bird in the hand, rather than two in the bush, and Stein is who they’ve got that they can control.
At the end of the day Putin has a very clear motive to help Trump win his election at all costs and the leadership of the Green Party has been shown to have been in close contact with Moscow. It may not matter materially whether or not she is a Russian plant at this time. But it does matter because it is yet another avenue for hostile foreign interference with our election.
They aren’t intended to win, they’re intended to do exactly what they’re doing - selecting particular wedge issues to split the Democrat vote and give them a lower total percentage vs Republicans
But surely that would happen even if someone else like Cornel West was the Greens leader.
All Putin achieves by (somehow) installing his plant as the Greens presidential candidate is lowering the Greens’ vote share by preventing them from getting the most charismatic and effective candidate.
If Putin really did subvert the Greens’ selection mechanism and install a less popular candidate with limited appeal, the Democrats should be thanking him.
Nothing to believe. The proof is in front of your eyes. Green Party funding is from Russian sources. Jill loves to have dinners with Putin and the oligarchs.
Type fast! Before long you’ll have to ship out to the front lines with you NK allies. Planting sunflowers is harder work than typing nonsense from your desk.
I’m not Russian.
You lie.
European Greens must be dumb as fuck then, because the US Green party exists to:
Get
Republicans
Elected
Every
November
Maybe if your candidate were more popular than a rapist felon you wouldn’t need to worry about the Greens.
Maybe if the electoral system hadn’t been specifically designed to give extra votes to slave states from the beginning this wouldn’t be a problem.
Maybe if we had an election system that wasn’t broken we wouldn’t need to worry about the Greens.
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Haha they must be new to this, Jill Stein isn’t running for president, she is running to split the vote like they paid her to.
Of course they know that. They’re saying this to make exactly this point. While the average US voter will be entirely unaware of and oblivious to what some pinkos from cheese eating surrender monkey land say, potential green voters just might take notice.
If they haven’t already, they won’t.
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I don’t like that phrase because it was used a lot by the american right when france refused to support them in the Iraq war and by far right figures in the UK during Brexit.
Of course. The way it was used here was to make fun of exactly those people.
If I recall correctly it originally started as something said by Willie in the simpsons but then a lot of people started saying it in real life to insult people based on nationality which is kinda fucked up and was condemned as xenophobic.
How do you do, savage from the colonies?
Fun fact: if jill wasnt on the ballot harris still wouldn’t have received my vote. Harris losing votes has nothing to do with jill being there. Harris’ struggles are purely her own fault, propaganda from Russia only works if there is a edge to grab, the only reason there is an edge to grab is because harris has decided to treat arab Americans absolutely horribly this entire campaign.
Learn to focus your energy properly: on changing Harris’ mind not the voters for whom preventing a genocide is important. Trust me it’ll be easier.
Jill has a snowball’s chance in hell of winning and if you think voting for her helps the “Arabs” you are wrong. It cancels out your voice because Jill is not a viable candidate. Your vote has been effectively split.
Your choices, like it or not, are Harris or Trump. So let’s break this down since you seem to think a vote for Harris is worse than not voting.
Kamala Harris has prioritized a ceasefire in Gaza, advocating for Israel’s right to respond to Hamas attacks while emphasizing civilian protection and addressing humanitarian needs. Harris’s approach focuses on a three-part plan for Gaza’s future: reconstruction, enhanced Palestinian Authority security, and governance reforms to stabilize the area post-conflict. Harris, however, does not support an arms embargo on Israel but has backed withholding specific weapons amid Israel’s military operations in Gaza. She views a two-state solution as a path toward long-term stability, but she stresses that immediate efforts should be humanitarian and diplomatic to prevent civilian harm and prepare for a sustainable resolution.
Donald Trump, in contrast, has heavily criticized ceasefire calls as limiting Israel’s ability to eliminate Hamas, framing his support as “unconditional” for Israel’s military objectives. Trump argues that his policies would have prevented the escalation of violence, asserting that Hamas’s attack on Israel would not have occurred if he were in office. While he has expressed skepticism about a two-state solution, Trump is more focused on empowering Israel to pursue military action without restriction. Trump has also suggested that his approach would involve exerting pressure on Israeli leadership if necessary to secure what he describes as a “final resolution” to the conflict, though specifics remain vague. Trump’s campaign has used pro-Israel rhetoric to appeal to voters and has signaled a hardline stance against Hamas.
So, I am sure your voting for the lady who can’t win as opposed to the lady who can win will help the “Arabs” you seem to care so much about. Good on you for picking a hill to die on though, I hope you like it because you and your people are about to die on it.
Try not to tell me what my choices for president are, my ballot clearly listed them.
- Harris / Waltz
- Trump / Vance
- Cornel West
- Jill
- Claudia
Now fun fact: my state is 30+ dem. I can vote for whoever I chose at 0 risk of trump getting those electoral votes. And I happily exercised that this election rather than vote for a candidate with is hostile to not only labor, but apparently is quite happy enabling a genocide.
Now if I was in a different state would I behave differently? absolutely. but I’m not, many people are in the same position as i am. harris lost my vote and I had 0 compelling reasons to give her a hand based on her words and deeds. She was a bad candidate in 2020, and shes a bad candidate today. try to focus on the issues that actually matter. my critters know why I handed jill the ticket.
If you want harris to win instead of trying to wow me with your inane rambling about my voting options spend your effort on getting harris to see reason before she blows it in 3 days.
Bless your heart, you have a good day now.
next time try not to be an asshole to people pushing for good changes and respect people have different options than you. but given your response, thats probably impossible for an asshole like yourself. bless your heart.
Lol, you can’t counter bless your heart with bless your heart that’s not how it works.
Just because I told you you were wrong does not make me an asshole or disrespectful of your opinion. Jill Stien is a vote splitter, that’s the original point. No 3rd party candidate has any chance of winning in any state and a vote for one splits the vote. Your condescending response and personal attacks don’t change that.
Look, I am just happy you are voting and if you hadn’t been condescending I would have talked more with you about it. I wish I lived in a state where I could throw my vote away in a form of futile protest but I dont, and there is a lot we could continue to argue about that point, but you decided to call my thought-out rebuttal “inane rambling” and then prove my point by stating that if you didn’t live in a solidly blue state you would feel differently. So instead of engaging further, I gave you a bless your heart and walked away.
I am bored though so here I am engaged in the most noble of futile endeavors arguing with stupid on the internet…Fun fact, that’s me being an asshole.
😂 bless your heart.
Who would have recieved your vote, if only Trump and Harris were on the ballot?
Oh! Oh I’ve seen this one in another thread!
“I wouldn’t vote for either of them.”
That’s not an option in this exercise, you have to pick one or the other.
“I don’t see why I’d have to choose. I pick neither.”
Again, that wasn’t the question. Harris or Trump are the only acceptable answers. If you have to choose one, which would it be?
That’s how the exchange generally went. It shone a really nice spotlight on the ridiculous mindset at play.
We all know who they’d vote for
I’m waiting for jatone to chime in. Humans aren’t good at logic problems, especially real world ones where they don’t have to follow instructions. Ever try giving a logic puzzle to a 6 year old and they answer “well I wouldn’t do either of those things I’d buy an airplane and use a laser gun and then…”
That’s what this stuff is. While I understand the desperate need to reform the system, you don’t do that by throwing the game. I know how unlikely it is to change their minds (and they already voted) but others reading this who aren’t as bull-headed might take half a second to re-evaluate the actual outcomes available from the actions to be taken. That’s the hope anyways.
Good on you for remaining hopeful! In cases like this, though, the ignorance is willful. They know how absurd they’re acting. Once the conversation goes past the point of their ability to just be obstinate, they abruptly cease responding.
And that lack of response will be another data point for anyone reading this in the future.
Hey look! you were right! I would choose neither. false dichotomy are not interesting questions. You’ll learn nothing from them since you know, they don’t represent reality. but in such a situation where only harris and trump were on the table. harris of course. but since that isn’t the case, and my vote in no way endangers the country to trump, but does allow me to point my reps and say ‘that could be my vote for you next cycle’ which I absolutely have done. my 3rd party vote is providing more value for my reps to push back on harris when they need to. particularly in defense of ms khan and gaza.
What do you mean when you say “my vote in no way endangers the country to Trump”?
Exactly what i said. Trumpet isnt even a blip of a possibility in my state. We’re talking 0.000001%. its pretty nice here we do good work.
Harris is the greater evil in my voting scenario. Its going to be very unfortunate if she loses this week to trump because the rank and file couldn’t be bothered to pressure her over something as little as not genociding but ug here we are.
I mean she has larger issues as a candidate but explaining those is 1000x harder than ‘genocide bad mmmmkay?’ and even that message is struggling to get through because trumpet has managed to make everyone absolutely insane.
I agree with a lot of what you just said there.
Just not your conclusion.
Does your vote not count in the national “popular vote” for some reason? With a race this … Whatever this is, don’t you think you’d want to give every possible advantage to the person that CAN defeat Trump? Especially somewhere that she is likely to win, aren’t you concerned many like-minded people will make the same mistake you are/did?
That’s kinda the playbook here. Each of you individually thinks “Harris will win this in my riding, so I’m allowed to be special and vote for a third party so I can feel good about myself!”
It’s literally why everyone is asking Jill to fuck off. She won’t leach any Trump supporters from him. But she will leach people like you from Harris.
It’s just selfish.
You’re either a Russian agent, or a useful idiot. EITHER WAY, your opinion is worthless when it comes to American politics, so kindly skitter back under the rocks from which you came.
And you struggle with understanding how to apply contextual information to a situation and clearly come to the wrong conclusions. Either way Ill gladly be her with my bullhorn making you uncomfortable with the sad truth you’re enabling a genocide.
in my state? it would have been left empty. you know thats an option right. you can say ‘none of these’.
You’re not saying “none of these”, as it will ultimately still be one of them, more accurately you’re saying: “I’ll take either equally”
Incorrect. Did you ever learn about the monty hall problem? You seem to struggle with applying priors to a situation.
In my state the prior is: trump isnt even a blip of a possibility. We’re talking 0.00001% not a blip. Not gonna happen. Harris is literally the greater evil in my state. Go through my history.
Its going to suck in a few days if harris loses because you nits thought that throwing labor, arabs and other minorities under the proverbial bus was a winning strategy.
I don’t know about all that, I just enjoy logic. I’m replying to you saying “I’d choose not to vote”, that is not the same as saying “none of the above”, it’s the same as saying “any of the above”
and you’d be wrong. shrug you’re essentially saying anyone who doesn’t vote doesn’t have an preference. which is trivially incorrect. ask felons if they have a preference. ask teenagers.
if the prior is ‘harris will win’ me not voting for her isn’t a statement of ‘either’ its a statement of ‘I don’t need to support her shittiness’ you don’t get to assert what my preferences are certainly.
In that case, your voice is meaningless so you should just shut your mouth and let the adults continue to vote.
smile let me know when the actual adults show up. Because right now all i see are murderous children.
So you would not vote?
Do you understand how ballots work? They have more than one position on them. Yes id pass this election if there were not a single candidate with the moral grounding to not support a genocide.
But there are two even! Makes it pretty easy. Esp since there is 0 risk of my state going trump. If only the rest of the country was as correctly grounded that harris would be the greater evil.
Get it now? Been fucking telling you dunces in every post: in my state harris is literally the greater evil choice because trump isnt even on the map when it comes to viability. Its pretty nice, and you could have it to just by withholding support for candidates who support genocide. Not supporting a genocide is kind of a prior to having empathy which, i hope i dont need to explain why, is a really good quality for a politician to have. And harris doesnt. Withholding support its key to be explicit, does not necessarily mean withholding your vote as i did. It means speaking out, as i am, engaging others. And if its safe for you to do so with holding your vote.
I’m responding to your other, much more coherent response.
“Why do you think I’m running? Isn’t this like telling me not to drink water to prevent hydration?” - Jill Stein probably
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Good. I was apart of the Green Party, I left when I learned they were planning of running a candidate this year, when internally, we were floating around the idea of NOT running a candidate.
That’s interesting insider info. Was the reason for not fielding a candidate because of this particular issue (splitting the vote)?
Can’t say exactly, it was just floated around, I’m guessing it was for that specific reason, but that was around the time I was thinking of leaving for other reasons, they are VERY unorganized as a party and it really, really bothered me. The way smaller Transhumanist Party seems more organized than the Green Party.
Probably because running a presidential candidate is a waste of money unless your intent is to split the vote.
Start local, gain influence, work your way up.
Edit - to those downvoting, the Green Party literally has zero representation, even at the State level. And you want to jump straight to POTUS. Riiight.
Get one state senate seat. Get one House of Representatives seat. Get some kind of representation. Then you have a bargaining chip.
The threat of splitting the vote is a good reason to run, if you feel like your position isn’t being taken seriously enough AND that it’s important enough that everything else is worth losing.
The problem is that the majority of the Democrats are on board with green initiatives. The only holdup on the $10T program before was Manchin. She has now pivoted RCV, or more specifically destroying the duopoly because they are the enemy for “reasons”.
Also, she’s said that she wouldn’t pull out even if the Dems gave her what she wanted. So it doesn’t really work as a threat either.
Eh, threatening to split the vote might in theory get some campaign promises, but such promises are likely to evaporate when things get down to it.
Meanwhile if you actually hold a persistent presence in the house or senate, particularly when it’s close, you got ongoing leverage. Hell, folks like AOC, MTG, Boebert have an absurd amount of national influence for being elected by merely a singular district.
IDK if I really want to know but I can imagine a mid-to-far-left party like the greens would have a lot of disparity in the views of members.
Why would ylu believe a rando on a forum post re: insider info?
Why would you assume I just believe them outright? I just said it was interesting and asked a follow up question to get more info.
Fair enough, cary on warning remains for others. :)
Isn’t it too late for it to matter? At this point, she’s on the ballots that she’s on, isn’t she?
Especially for states like Oregon that are primarily vote by mail. I already have my ballot, and Stein withdrawing won’t keep people from voting for her
Yes, her name is already on the ballots, like RFK Jr is still on the ballots in many states, but the hope is her supporters will listen to her endorsement. Just because a person’s name is on the ballot doesn’t force people to vote for that person. Some people have voted already, some will continue to vote for her out of protest, some will continue to vote for her because they didn’t hear she dropped out or didn’t care. But the hope is enough people will hear that she dropped out and endorsed Harris that their votes will come through for Harris.
What a shit show, honestly.
When I went to vote last week and saw RFK Jr.'s name was still on the Indiana ballot, I burst out laughing.
You’re assuming we voted for jill because shes jill. Which is not the case for everyone. She got my vote because of Harris’ absolutely abysmal treatment of arabs and gaza, her lack of pro labor policies, etc etc etc.
Jill dropping out would just meant the vote went to a different non-trump candidate or left blank.
The only way harris would have gotten my vote was if she modified her position on gaza, or another key issues like ensuring kahn was kept.
She declined to do so, so i declined to vote for her. 🤷 But harris will be fine my state is 20+ dem.
That’ll teach her! Way to go - you really stuck it to that horrible excuse of a candidate.
It’s not like she had better labor policies (or practices) than that other guy (or did she?)
It’s not like that other guy was (allegedly) working with an (alleged) war criminal to rebuff US efforts to make a ceasefire deal (or was he?)
And finally, it’s not like AIPAC can literally thumbs up or down damn near any politician in the US like Julius H. Fucking, Ceasar and an almost universal bloc of voters will carry out their direction. Oh, wait, they will.
The thing that pisses me off is that yeah, maybe she’s fine in Cali or Hawaii or wherever. But there’s gonna be a fuck of a lot more death and misery in the world if fascists get control of the United States in the form of Donald Trump, and in those few states that matter (because of the fucked up electoral college) that attitude , which I perceive as smug self-righteousness, could be the deciding factor.
That simple worldview, unburdened with the whole idea of “you can’t make change if you’re not elected” must really be comfortable.
But you sure showed Harris.
I’d love to expound on this thought, but I have a fussy infant daughter that needs attending. BTW, it would be really cool if she FUCKING DIDN’T have to grow up in some goddamned Handmaid’s Tale dystopia.
So you’re ditching one fussy infant for another?
I agree it would be great if your daughter didnt grow up in such a dystopia. So tell me have you been emailing your critters to let them know to reverse course on gaza? Worker rights, (ala khan, health care etc?). Did you vote for harris in the prinary (rhetorical question obv)?
Gaza is such a low bar, ‘dont send weapons to a country genociding’ we even have laws already on the books for this. Harris wants to claim herself as law and order she can follow the fucking law.
Now as i said i live in 20+ state. My vote is literally wasted on harris. The best outcome we can get w/ harris is an absolute squeeker of a win. If she loses she has no one to blame but herself shes been getting told for months to reverse course on gaza. Biden has been getting told for a year. Their refusal is whats caused this.
Now ask yourself: would you vote for harris if she reversed course in gaza? If the answer is yes, then why havent you joined us in pressuring her? All it takes is a lie to pollsters, calls to your critters, and a willingness to reduce her win ratio in deep blue states. dont worry we’re not asking you to vote 3rd party in red/purple states. Vote harris in those places if you can, if you can’t no judgement its not your fault harris ran on these policies.
Whats more important is that we get every possible vote out down ballot. harris is secondary concern. What matters more is the house/senate. A harris win is essentially useless if we cant pass legislation. While a harris loss control of those chambers will be incredibly critical.
You want roe v wade codified, focus on local reps and congress critters, ballot measures. You’ll have more success.
I completely agree with your last two paragraphs. Regarding the rest, the other person that replied stated my thoughts in much more eloquent terms than I’m able at present.
Edit: regarding the electoral and electorate math: I noticed you didn’t touch the “Trump working the Netenyahu to block a ceasefire” (which would obliviate the need for bombs), “you can’t govern if you can’t win”, and “AIPAC” topics, but also seem to think that all of this is Harris’ fault or she has control of this.
correct. Harris will win my state regardless of my vote, hence its perfectly fine to vote with my distaste for her policies on labor and genocide. harris’ problems lie in other states.
As for trump and a ceasefire. I didn’t think I needed to; Unless harris literally does that one thing she has so far committed to not doing, enforcing US law on weapon shipments to countries committing war crimes, Netenyahu will continue to do what hes currently doing make any ceasefire agreement DOA making the two admins immaterially different in terms of outcomes.
Yeah so the message so far has been carte Blanche vote third party. None of the nuance you’re displaying here is evident in 99% of these 3rd party posts. They’re all “genocide BAD, vote 3rd party or you’re COMPLICIT!” so the message here isnt what you’re saying.
Secondly, applying your logic regarding wasted effort because your state is solid blue, telling others to write their congresspeople on the issue is equally useless. Throwing the onus on them is shortsighted. The, “what have YOU done” argument doesn’t really hold water with anyone, particularly when many people reside in a solid red or blue state
Finally, voting 3rd party sends “a” message after the election, not during, and no candidate ever looks back at the election results to ask Greenies why they didn’t vote for them. They do canvassing before and during, and quite frankly they have to walk a tightrope between courting lefties and every other single-issue voter. Imagine you’re running and you have Greenies yelling about genocide, women’s rights yelling about bodily autonomy, and LGBTQ folks yelling about equality and all three don’t give a flying fuck about the others. What would you do? Exactly what Harris is doing - courting the biggest blocs of voters.
I’m not gonna touch on the general laziness of my compatriots, but when I went to early vote at my precinct there were a lot of people voting straight ticket, so I don’t think most people will dig through ballots to send that message. Frankly, Trump in power means nothing for down ballot votes because he still installs a fascist regime.
sounds like you think voting is a wasted effort in general. 🤷
They’re all “genocide BAD, vote 3rd party or you’re COMPLICIT!” so the message here isnt what you’re saying.
Genocide is bad, and we are complicit when we vote for harris currently. but thats because people are happy to vote for her mindlessly. not because the people trying to get her to shift are wrong.
Finally, voting 3rd party sends “a” message after the election
Oh I’ve been pestering my reps all year on gaza. and I continued to do so up through casting my ballot mid month in october. I’m just also able to happily follow through given the electoral makeup of my state.
Imagine you’re running and you have Greenies yelling about genocide, women’s rights yelling about bodily autonomy, and LGBTQ folks yelling about equality and all three don’t give a flying fuck about the others. What would you do? Exactly what Harris is doing - courting the biggest blocs of voters.
Well first off I’d recognize that most people are very happy not to support a genocide. and that maybe an administration with historically low approval isn’t a good model for success. zionists are not the majority of jews. many are perfectly happy if we withheld aid to israel based on our laws. if I was running Id happily point out israel is in violation of american laws and as soon as they begin complying and stop murdering innocents they’ll get their weapons back. So what we have here is a minority group (arabs) vs a minority of another minority group (zionists). in most states the loss of zionists wouldn’t tick the needle materially.
LGBTQ+ are well justified and I’d support them; just as I’d support anyone seeking personal freedoms protections that dont infringe on others rights.
Women are more than welcome to raise the banner over bodily autonomy as well they should. the government should have not be involved in decisions made between medical professionals and patients.
I certainly wouldn’t tell citizens to sit down I’m speaking, remove them from my rallies for no reason. I’d simply recognize the fact they’re there for a reason and make time for them as part of the schedule as long as they’re not too disruptive the rest of the evening.
You see, its fairly easy to differentiate oneself from harris’ behavior. I certainly would have given arab americans a voice at the DNC for example. they asked for one slot for christ sake. would have been a lot harder to nail harris to the wall if she wasn’t acting like a radical zionist on gaza.
Frankly, Trump in power means nothing for down ballot votes because he still installs a fascist regime.
it’d certainly be a problem, think maybe you can get harris to recognize her follies before its too late?
Response from Jill: Can you outbid Putin?
