vegans have noble intentions but they are fighting the wrong battle: the root evil is not meat consumption per se but capitalism and the resource exploitation that it implies
Killing animals to eat them is wrong, plain and simple
See, it’s these kinds of fanatical black-and-white statements that makes it hard to sympathize with vegan ideology, even as I agree with many of its tenets. Feeling sad for animals that die to be consumed is not a strong argument for it being wrong. Humans are animals just as any other, and if it is wrong inherently to kill something to sustain oneself, then we should kill off all carnivorous and insectivorous animals, so that they cannot kill and eat their prey.
Humans are not animals just like any other. We have the capacity for self-reflection and change. We are also not obligate carnivores - we have the choice to eat plant-only diets without health risks unlike a lot of animals
I do think we are not aligning in communication, and I think you’re misreading my tone. I did read your comment with the intention that you clarified here, and I saw that you were not vegan, but it’s hard to deny that Killing animals to eat them is wrong, plain and simple is a very hard-line stance that would typically be touted by vegan activists. I was more replying to that point itself than you as an individual in making that statement.
I disagree with the point that one cannot ethically kill an animal, and I also agree wholeheartedly that our consumption habits around meat are abysmal for the environment. I am in hardcore corn and dairy country, so I am well-aware of the consequences of our mass production of meat and grain. The Midwestern ecosystem is practically gone. Illinois at one point boasted over 20,000,000 acres of prairie, and today that total is less than 10,000.
Regarding the quotation, I was not saying that you felt that way. My reply is to the ardent severity of the claim that all killing of animals is wrong, and trying to arrive at a conclusion to that worldview that I think is in line with that thinking. I’m sorry if you thought I was trying to put that opinion on you, that was just me wording myself poorly.
suggesting that animals eating other animals is bad does not imply that killing all carnivores is the correct solution to that problem. there is no solution to that problem which would save the lives of every animal alive today, so any solution to this problem must include the death of some animals. “continue letting animals eat other animals until we can find a real solution that won’t destroy the biosphere or genocide billions of living creatures” is a valid solution even under the strict idea that killing animals to eat them is always wrong
Nor is vegan eating consequence free for life. Factory farming, much like factory meat in some ways, obliterates vast amounts and variety of life that previously resided in that given field. It is also contributing to rapid worldwide top soil decline, something no one seems to give a shit about. Ecological cattle raising could be a mitigation to both issues but some people have too much soy clogging up the brain to do their own thinking.
So cattle eat things that humans cannot and convert them into things we can. They poop and urinate to fertilise the place, graze in places not suitable for crops, churn the soil as they move about and it turns out plants needs to be grazed. All this is easily searchable information. Bear in mind I am not talking about factory cattle, which is a cruel and awful practice that probably should be banned.
This article lays out the argument pretty well for example.
Of course the root of evil is capitalism, but you have to understand that we would need to greatly reduce meat consuption to have the “ethical” way of breeding that most people expect. The reason why the animal exploitation is so bad is that it has to satisfy a demand that keeps growing. People expect to continue their eating habits and that companies should just be held accountable, change their ways and still produce the same quantities of meat/diaries/eggs.
The root evil is your meat consumption. If theres nothing wrong, then go to your local slaughter house and stand in line. If you dont like to do that you know what they feel. The feel the same fucking way about it as you do. And they dont get any sedation as they get during an execution. They get the first row experience to fucked up death.
Fuck your dumb ideas and go eat some fucking beans and shut the fuck up.
Slaves mined the metals used to make the device you typed that on. You cannot get the moral high ground when your (and my) entire privileged world exists due to the exploitation of everyone that doesn’t exist in it.
animal ag is far more inefficient in terms of calories, and if you think vegan food isn’t tasty, expand your diet beyond chicken nuggets (or try vegan nuggets which are also tasty)
You like to pretend that you care about what the animal feels, but you clearly just want to feel good about yourself by feeling superior to others. Why otherwise would you be this rude and obnoxious for no good reason? Do you think this behavior is likely to make people think “hmm, maybe he’s right and I should just eat beans and shut the fuck up”? Of course not, you’re just looking to feel superior. You have no actual interest in convincing others about the feeling of animals facing death.
The OP is not wrong, the capitalist system of exploitation is the root of the issue, and you’re the obvious example of a misguided vegan.
I don’t think they’re misguided, I just think that even if we solved the capitalist exploitation driving the meat industry they would still care about animal suffering on a micro scale. I also feel like you’re making a lot of assumptions about them based on that singular focus. Your view of the issue as a whole is just as myopic as his.
vegans have noble intentions but they are fighting the wrong battle: the root evil is not meat consumption per se but capitalism and the resource exploitation that it implies
deleted by creator
See, it’s these kinds of fanatical black-and-white statements that makes it hard to sympathize with vegan ideology, even as I agree with many of its tenets. Feeling sad for animals that die to be consumed is not a strong argument for it being wrong. Humans are animals just as any other, and if it is wrong inherently to kill something to sustain oneself, then we should kill off all carnivorous and insectivorous animals, so that they cannot kill and eat their prey.
ignorant vegan:
you, an intellectual:
enlightened ve-gone:
Carnivore accelerationism
Humans are not animals just like any other. We have the capacity for self-reflection and change. We are also not obligate carnivores - we have the choice to eat plant-only diets without health risks unlike a lot of animals
deleted by creator
I do think we are not aligning in communication, and I think you’re misreading my tone. I did read your comment with the intention that you clarified here, and I saw that you were not vegan, but it’s hard to deny that Killing animals to eat them is wrong, plain and simple is a very hard-line stance that would typically be touted by vegan activists. I was more replying to that point itself than you as an individual in making that statement.
I disagree with the point that one cannot ethically kill an animal, and I also agree wholeheartedly that our consumption habits around meat are abysmal for the environment. I am in hardcore corn and dairy country, so I am well-aware of the consequences of our mass production of meat and grain. The Midwestern ecosystem is practically gone. Illinois at one point boasted over 20,000,000 acres of prairie, and today that total is less than 10,000.
Regarding the quotation, I was not saying that you felt that way. My reply is to the ardent severity of the claim that all killing of animals is wrong, and trying to arrive at a conclusion to that worldview that I think is in line with that thinking. I’m sorry if you thought I was trying to put that opinion on you, that was just me wording myself poorly.
suggesting that animals eating other animals is bad does not imply that killing all carnivores is the correct solution to that problem. there is no solution to that problem which would save the lives of every animal alive today, so any solution to this problem must include the death of some animals. “continue letting animals eat other animals until we can find a real solution that won’t destroy the biosphere or genocide billions of living creatures” is a valid solution even under the strict idea that killing animals to eat them is always wrong
This looks more like you’re just wounded ego than it is about tone policing now.
You’re actually more annoying than any vegan I’ve met. Please get off our capitalism argument. You’re making it look bad too.
Nor is vegan eating consequence free for life. Factory farming, much like factory meat in some ways, obliterates vast amounts and variety of life that previously resided in that given field. It is also contributing to rapid worldwide top soil decline, something no one seems to give a shit about. Ecological cattle raising could be a mitigation to both issues but some people have too much soy clogging up the brain to do their own thinking.
how could cattle raising ever be more ecologically friendly than farming? the cattle must eat, so we’ve just shifted the problem, no?
So cattle eat things that humans cannot and convert them into things we can. They poop and urinate to fertilise the place, graze in places not suitable for crops, churn the soil as they move about and it turns out plants needs to be grazed. All this is easily searchable information. Bear in mind I am not talking about factory cattle, which is a cruel and awful practice that probably should be banned.
This article lays out the argument pretty well for example.
Of course the root of evil is capitalism, but you have to understand that we would need to greatly reduce meat consuption to have the “ethical” way of breeding that most people expect. The reason why the animal exploitation is so bad is that it has to satisfy a demand that keeps growing. People expect to continue their eating habits and that companies should just be held accountable, change their ways and still produce the same quantities of meat/diaries/eggs.
The root evil is your meat consumption. If theres nothing wrong, then go to your local slaughter house and stand in line. If you dont like to do that you know what they feel. The feel the same fucking way about it as you do. And they dont get any sedation as they get during an execution. They get the first row experience to fucked up death.
Fuck your dumb ideas and go eat some fucking beans and shut the fuck up.
Slaves mined the metals used to make the device you typed that on. You cannot get the moral high ground when your (and my) entire privileged world exists due to the exploitation of everyone that doesn’t exist in it.
I wouldn’t call being forced to eat beans as my sole source of protein an improvement on society.
that sounds like a you problem given the alternative is a system that needlessly kills millions of animals every day.
It’s not needless because it literally puts food on my table. Tasty food with a high calorie density.
animal ag is far more inefficient in terms of calories, and if you think vegan food isn’t tasty, expand your diet beyond chicken nuggets (or try vegan nuggets which are also tasty)
Damn, you need to get some meat pie.
Too much soy clogging up the brain.
I would gladly go to a local slaughterhouse but alas all I have is factory meat around me.
found the guy with stocks in Tyson
You like to pretend that you care about what the animal feels, but you clearly just want to feel good about yourself by feeling superior to others. Why otherwise would you be this rude and obnoxious for no good reason? Do you think this behavior is likely to make people think “hmm, maybe he’s right and I should just eat beans and shut the fuck up”? Of course not, you’re just looking to feel superior. You have no actual interest in convincing others about the feeling of animals facing death.
The OP is not wrong, the capitalist system of exploitation is the root of the issue, and you’re the obvious example of a misguided vegan.
I don’t think they’re misguided, I just think that even if we solved the capitalist exploitation driving the meat industry they would still care about animal suffering on a micro scale. I also feel like you’re making a lot of assumptions about them based on that singular focus. Your view of the issue as a whole is just as myopic as his.
I am superior, all vegans are. Nope there’s no reason to convince - you people belong in the ground not them :-).