On Tuesday, a German Jewish group had its account frozen after the bank demanded a list of its members’ details, in what experts believe is a clear breach of EU law. James Jackson reports from Berlin.
Well, the bank is owned by the state 100%.
And the money is needed to fund a conference that’s trying to give the Palestinian narrative a platform.
The Palestinian narrative is btw far more in line with international law and with the findings of international human rights groups and historians (including Israeli human rights groups and historians) and even with common sense.
Therefore Germany (even more than the rest of the Western world) is quite eager to shut it up. But just as the support of Israel is our raison d’état, we want to be seen as if democracy and human rights are our raisons d’état equally.
So, like Israel plausibly committing genocide and ethnical cleansing and collective punishment, Germany is still at the stage of using pretexts and henchmen to do the dirty work of anti-democratically sabotage pro-Palestinian participation in German society’s discourse.
The bank in question (Sparkasse) btw manages the account of the right-wing extremist party Heimat (former NPD), too. I wonder if they had to provide every member’s name, too. What do you think?
They took away the Jewish Voice’s right of disposal of the account precisely at a time when they urgently need it. While giving quite shady reasons for doing so. So I think, at least as far as we’re not talking in legal terms here, seizing is definitely a proper word to call it. Especially when used by the victims of that treatment.
Who are Jews in Germany lest you forget. And I would like to remind you of the fact, that it’s ‘the Jews’ that we have a moral duty (acquired by the murder of millions) to protect from injustice, not just ‘the Jews who spread rightwing extremist Israeli government propaganda’.
People who don’t give a shit about Palestinian rights and lives defend Jewish Voice’s treatment by the Sparkasse. But obviously they‘d rather just ignore it. Which works pretty fine throughout German politics and media. So I consider you having to defend it (at least here on social media) a little success for the Palestinian cause.
I did not defend it, I merely corrected the headline. There isn’t a grand order to seize Jewish money in Germany like the headline suggests, this is a singular problem (yes, it is a problem) and it should be reported as one. This whole issue will realistically come out in two ways: either some Sparkasse employee fucked up (accidentally or maliciously) or the organization fucked up their paperwork and the bank did a standard procedure. Either way, it will come out and it will be resolved.
Is that really less probable than Scholz, Faeser or any other relevant politician calling some bank to lock a single bank account of a single pro-palestine organization?
There is an easy way to make Pro-Palestinian voices be heard in Germany’s public discourse, stop being silent about the atrocities committed by Hamas. It’s not like the German public is a big fan of Netanyahu, Settlers or starving Palestinians. But it is very hard to support a group constantly victimizing themselves, while there is video footage showing members of its side celebrating the rape and murder of a woman by parading her naked corpse through the streets.
I didn’t see that footage. If it’s really existing and not just a rumour generated by the Israeli propaganda machine (you know, like the beheaded babies and the mass rape and the playing ball with cut-off breasts shit), I would consider it a proof of the enormous hatred that many Palestinians bear in their hearts for Israeli people.
Israel’s leadership is trying to make us believe that this hatred is just part of the Palestinian culture. They try to keep us from empathizing with them.
But human beings are able to commit the most horrific crimes against others and against humanity, we all know that.
The Hamas atrocities and the Israeli narrative of why the atrocities on the October 7 happened of the conflict in general are omnipresent in the German discourse.
The Israeli narrative about the legitimacy of the state of Israel has even become part of our raison d’état.
I think that the German public has a right to learn about the Palestinian narrative of that matter. In fact I am convinced that it is nearer to the historical truth (as I learned from Israeli historians like Avi Shlaim or Ilan Pappé). It’s even nearer to common sense than the Israeli one.
So there seems to be a valid reason why German authorities and you seem so eager to shut up Palestinian voices.
But it’s not right and it proposes and supports Antisemitism.
Well, the money wasn’t “seized” and having jewish members doen’t necessarily have anything to do with the business decision. It could, but we don’t know. Could also be the case this protest group filed the wrong paperwork / chose the wrong legal status for their organization and just breached contract. Also a single bank (despite being publicly owned) isn’t Germany.
So the words “Germany” and “Seizing” are wrong. “Jews” is speculation. I’m fine with the words “Is” “Money,” “again”.
Do you understand the difference between “Jewish” and “Jews’”?
One means Jewish, eg, happening to be Jewish. The other means “that of the Jews”, ie collectively belonging to thr group, not just being the property of someone’s from the group.
“I take Jews’ money.”
means I take money from people who are Jewish.
As even your example shows, if I want to say that I take it from all the Jews, the wording should be the(!) Jews
But what pisses me off is: I am convinced that we’re having this stupid conversation just because you, like German media and authorities, are okay with shutting up pro-Palestinian voices, even or especially when they are Jewish.
The title implies exactly what I’ve said it does. To refuse that is to try to share gaslight the goy, as you’d call us.
I’m anti-genocide, which means I’m pro-palestine, because Israel is committing a genocide, killing thousands and thousands of innocents. Why would you pretend that IDF propaganda isn’t as big of a thing as it is when you’re supposedly “pro-Palestinian”?
This is sensationalist headlining which clearly implies that “just like in WWII when the Nazis stole the money of ALL the Jewish people, IT’S HAPPENING AGAIN, THEY’RE TAKING THE MONEY”. Anyone who pretends it doesn’t is either illiterate, delusional and/or severely brainwashed.
Wow, you could be the most ignorant moron I’ve ever met on the Internet. And the competition is tough.
I mean, there are a lot of people who just read the headline and then talk nonsense. But you’re pushing the system very far.
I’ll try again:
If the headline said “Germany seizes the money of the Jews”, with an article, that would mean that all Jews’ money is seized.
But if it says “Germany seizes Jew’s money” (or “Germany seizes Jewish money”), then nothing is said about the number of Jews whose money was seized. It could be two or all of them.
You claim that in the second case all Jews’ is meant because you found an article that says that articles are often(!) omitted in headlines. Exactly, often is not always! That’s why you don’t know at first glance whether the article was omitted here or whether it doesn’t belong there at all. Since Germany has not seized the money of all Jews (because we would have heard of that!), it can only be that the money of some Jews was frozen; so the article is missing grammatically correct.
But really surprising is that you claim to be pro-Palestinian. I am happy about that, at least we have something in common. I just feel a little sorry for the Palestinians that they have to endure someone like you in their ranks of advocates. You can’t choose, can you?
You don’t seem to have the slightest idea about the association “Jewish Voice (for a just peace in the Middle East)” nor about Germany.
The point that the Jewish Voice makes in its report is this: They accuse Germany of exhausting its anti-Antisemitism by parroting racist Israeli propaganda and suppressing pro-Palestinian statements, to the point of the absurdity that even Jews are declared anti-Semitic if they are pro-Palestinian.
The Jewish Voice’s account was most likely frozen because they used it collecting donations to fund the pro-Palestinian Palestine Conference in Berlin, Germany (in case that’s not clear yet), which is intended to provide the Palestinian voices with a larger space in the German discourse.
This is how the basic rights of Palestinians and their allies are being undermined by Germany.
You must be proud of making anti-Semitic attacks on allies of the Palestinians.
anti-Semitic attacks on allies of the Palestinians.
As soon as someone even implies a criticism, the “ANTI-SEMITE” screams come out. It’s quite frankly pathetic.
You’re pretending you don’t understand what the headline refers to. What do you think the “again” is referring to, hmm? How is it that they can literally refer to Germany seizing the money of any and all Jewish people, without you thinking they’re even remotely making an association to it?
The propaganda is insanely strong, and you getting that mad and spending literally days stewing over this is a pretty clear indicator of being irrationally upset probably because you’re annoyed that I’m right, but you just can not accept that. You’re trying to convince yourself more than me.
There’s been nothing political in this conversation so far, it’s simply what the headline objectively refers to, but you can’t help your hypocrisy and must stress how pro-Palestine you are — while literally spreading IDF propaganda by pretending IDF propaganda doesn’t exist, and using distancing language without realising it.
that even Jews are declared anti-Semitic if they are pro-Palestinian.
Well, the bank is owned by the state 100%.
And the money is needed to fund a conference that’s trying to give the Palestinian narrative a platform.
The Palestinian narrative is btw far more in line with international law and with the findings of international human rights groups and historians (including Israeli human rights groups and historians) and even with common sense.
Therefore Germany (even more than the rest of the Western world) is quite eager to shut it up. But just as the support of Israel is our raison d’état, we want to be seen as if democracy and human rights are our raisons d’état equally.
So, like Israel plausibly committing genocide and ethnical cleansing and collective punishment, Germany is still at the stage of using pretexts and henchmen to do the dirty work of anti-democratically sabotage pro-Palestinian participation in German society’s discourse.
The bank in question (Sparkasse) btw manages the account of the right-wing extremist party Heimat (former NPD), too. I wonder if they had to provide every member’s name, too. What do you think?
They took away the Jewish Voice’s right of disposal of the account precisely at a time when they urgently need it. While giving quite shady reasons for doing so. So I think, at least as far as we’re not talking in legal terms here, seizing is definitely a proper word to call it. Especially when used by the victims of that treatment.
Who are Jews in Germany lest you forget. And I would like to remind you of the fact, that it’s ‘the Jews’ that we have a moral duty (acquired by the murder of millions) to protect from injustice, not just ‘the Jews who spread rightwing extremist Israeli government propaganda’.
People who don’t give a shit about Palestinian rights and lives defend Jewish Voice’s treatment by the Sparkasse. But obviously they‘d rather just ignore it. Which works pretty fine throughout German politics and media. So I consider you having to defend it (at least here on social media) a little success for the Palestinian cause.
Äh, isn’t what the headline describes exactly what happened?
No, it’s a bank in Germany that locked the bank account of a Jewish organization. Neither did Germany do it, nor has the money been seized
Well, the bank is owned by the state 100%. And the money is needed to fund a conference that’s trying to give the Palestinian narrative a platform.
The Palestinian narrative is btw far more in line with international law and with the findings of international human rights groups and historians (including Israeli human rights groups and historians) and even with common sense.
Therefore Germany (even more than the rest of the Western world) is quite eager to shut it up. But just as the support of Israel is our raison d’état, we want to be seen as if democracy and human rights are our raisons d’état equally.
So, like Israel plausibly committing genocide and ethnical cleansing and collective punishment, Germany is still at the stage of using pretexts and henchmen to do the dirty work of anti-democratically sabotage pro-Palestinian participation in German society’s discourse.
The bank in question (Sparkasse) btw manages the account of the right-wing extremist party Heimat (former NPD), too. I wonder if they had to provide every member’s name, too. What do you think?
They took away the Jewish Voice’s right of disposal of the account precisely at a time when they urgently need it. While giving quite shady reasons for doing so. So I think, at least as far as we’re not talking in legal terms here, seizing is definitely a proper word to call it. Especially when used by the victims of that treatment.
Who are Jews in Germany lest you forget. And I would like to remind you of the fact, that it’s ‘the Jews’ that we have a moral duty (acquired by the murder of millions) to protect from injustice, not just ‘the Jews who spread rightwing extremist Israeli government propaganda’.
People who don’t give a shit about Palestinian rights and lives defend Jewish Voice’s treatment by the Sparkasse. But obviously they‘d rather just ignore it. Which works pretty fine throughout German politics and media. So I consider you having to defend it (at least here on social media) a little success for the Palestinian cause.
I did not defend it, I merely corrected the headline. There isn’t a grand order to seize Jewish money in Germany like the headline suggests, this is a singular problem (yes, it is a problem) and it should be reported as one. This whole issue will realistically come out in two ways: either some Sparkasse employee fucked up (accidentally or maliciously) or the organization fucked up their paperwork and the bank did a standard procedure. Either way, it will come out and it will be resolved.
Is that really less probable than Scholz, Faeser or any other relevant politician calling some bank to lock a single bank account of a single pro-palestine organization?
It will be “solved”, but the case is time sensitive because they need the money to support a pro-Palestinian conference in April.
And they collected donations for that purpose. So them and me suspect the bank to use that purpose as pretext to freeze the money.
And of course nobody is doing that to them out of Antisemitism. They’re being accused of being Antisemites on the cause of being pro-Palestinian.
Our anti-Antisemitism is just pro-Israelism. An ideology which promotes and supports Antisemitism.
And using that ideology to harass Jews looks like an extra perfidious Antisemitism to me.
There is an easy way to make Pro-Palestinian voices be heard in Germany’s public discourse, stop being silent about the atrocities committed by Hamas. It’s not like the German public is a big fan of Netanyahu, Settlers or starving Palestinians. But it is very hard to support a group constantly victimizing themselves, while there is video footage showing members of its side celebrating the rape and murder of a woman by parading her naked corpse through the streets.
I didn’t see that footage. If it’s really existing and not just a rumour generated by the Israeli propaganda machine (you know, like the beheaded babies and the mass rape and the playing ball with cut-off breasts shit), I would consider it a proof of the enormous hatred that many Palestinians bear in their hearts for Israeli people.
Israel’s leadership is trying to make us believe that this hatred is just part of the Palestinian culture. They try to keep us from empathizing with them.
But human beings are able to commit the most horrific crimes against others and against humanity, we all know that.
The Hamas atrocities and the Israeli narrative of why the atrocities on the October 7 happened of the conflict in general are omnipresent in the German discourse.
The Israeli narrative about the legitimacy of the state of Israel has even become part of our raison d’état.
I think that the German public has a right to learn about the Palestinian narrative of that matter. In fact I am convinced that it is nearer to the historical truth (as I learned from Israeli historians like Avi Shlaim or Ilan Pappé). It’s even nearer to common sense than the Israeli one.
So there seems to be a valid reason why German authorities and you seem so eager to shut up Palestinian voices.
But it’s not right and it proposes and supports Antisemitism.
Well, the money wasn’t “seized” and having jewish members doen’t necessarily have anything to do with the business decision. It could, but we don’t know. Could also be the case this protest group filed the wrong paperwork / chose the wrong legal status for their organization and just breached contract. Also a single bank (despite being publicly owned) isn’t Germany.
So the words “Germany” and “Seizing” are wrong. “Jews” is speculation. I’m fine with the words “Is” “Money,” “again”.
Also the “Jews’” in the title implies “the money of any Jewish person” essentially, when it was just a single specific organisation.
No, it doesn’t.
Yes, ir does.
Do you understand the difference between “Jewish” and “Jews’”?
One means Jewish, eg, happening to be Jewish. The other means “that of the Jews”, ie collectively belonging to thr group, not just being the property of someone’s from the group.
“I take Jews’ money.” means I take money from people who are Jewish.
As even your example shows, if I want to say that I take it from all the Jews, the wording should be the(!) Jews
But what pisses me off is: I am convinced that we’re having this stupid conversation just because you, like German media and authorities, are okay with shutting up pro-Palestinian voices, even or especially when they are Jewish.
That’s not how language works, but I understand that you’re desperate to defend your indoctrination.
https://english.stackexchange.com/questions/38759/whats-the-general-rule-for-dropping-articles-in-article-section-titles-or-in
The title implies exactly what I’ve said it does. To refuse that is to try to share gaslight the goy, as you’d call us.
I’m anti-genocide, which means I’m pro-palestine, because Israel is committing a genocide, killing thousands and thousands of innocents. Why would you pretend that IDF propaganda isn’t as big of a thing as it is when you’re supposedly “pro-Palestinian”?
This is sensationalist headlining which clearly implies that “just like in WWII when the Nazis stole the money of ALL the Jewish people, IT’S HAPPENING AGAIN, THEY’RE TAKING THE MONEY”. Anyone who pretends it doesn’t is either illiterate, delusional and/or severely brainwashed.
Wow, you could be the most ignorant moron I’ve ever met on the Internet. And the competition is tough.
I mean, there are a lot of people who just read the headline and then talk nonsense. But you’re pushing the system very far.
I’ll try again:
If the headline said “Germany seizes the money of the Jews”, with an article, that would mean that all Jews’ money is seized.
But if it says “Germany seizes Jew’s money” (or “Germany seizes Jewish money”), then nothing is said about the number of Jews whose money was seized. It could be two or all of them.
You claim that in the second case all Jews’ is meant because you found an article that says that articles are often(!) omitted in headlines. Exactly, often is not always! That’s why you don’t know at first glance whether the article was omitted here or whether it doesn’t belong there at all. Since Germany has not seized the money of all Jews (because we would have heard of that!), it can only be that the money of some Jews was frozen; so the article is missing grammatically correct.
But really surprising is that you claim to be pro-Palestinian. I am happy about that, at least we have something in common. I just feel a little sorry for the Palestinians that they have to endure someone like you in their ranks of advocates. You can’t choose, can you?
You don’t seem to have the slightest idea about the association “Jewish Voice (for a just peace in the Middle East)” nor about Germany.
The point that the Jewish Voice makes in its report is this: They accuse Germany of exhausting its anti-Antisemitism by parroting racist Israeli propaganda and suppressing pro-Palestinian statements, to the point of the absurdity that even Jews are declared anti-Semitic if they are pro-Palestinian.
The Jewish Voice’s account was most likely frozen because they used it collecting donations to fund the pro-Palestinian Palestine Conference in Berlin, Germany (in case that’s not clear yet), which is intended to provide the Palestinian voices with a larger space in the German discourse.
This is how the basic rights of Palestinians and their allies are being undermined by Germany.
You must be proud of making anti-Semitic attacks on allies of the Palestinians.
As soon as someone even implies a criticism, the “ANTI-SEMITE” screams come out. It’s quite frankly pathetic.
You’re pretending you don’t understand what the headline refers to. What do you think the “again” is referring to, hmm? How is it that they can literally refer to Germany seizing the money of any and all Jewish people, without you thinking they’re even remotely making an association to it?
The propaganda is insanely strong, and you getting that mad and spending literally days stewing over this is a pretty clear indicator of being irrationally upset probably because you’re annoyed that I’m right, but you just can not accept that. You’re trying to convince yourself more than me.
There’s been nothing political in this conversation so far, it’s simply what the headline objectively refers to, but you can’t help your hypocrisy and must stress how pro-Palestine you are — while literally spreading IDF propaganda by pretending IDF propaganda doesn’t exist, and using distancing language without realising it.
Iiiroooonyyyy
@brainrein
The headline is outright garbage given the article’s content.
No, it isn’t.
Well, the bank is owned by the state 100%. And the money is needed to fund a conference that’s trying to give the Palestinian narrative a platform.
The Palestinian narrative is btw far more in line with international law and with the findings of international human rights groups and historians (including Israeli human rights groups and historians) and even with common sense.
Therefore Germany (even more than the rest of the Western world) is quite eager to shut it up. But just as the support of Israel is our raison d’état, we want to be seen as if democracy and human rights are our raisons d’état equally.
So, like Israel plausibly committing genocide and ethnical cleansing and collective punishment, Germany is still at the stage of using pretexts and henchmen to do the dirty work of anti-democratically sabotage pro-Palestinian participation in German society’s discourse.
The bank in question (Sparkasse) btw manages the account of the right-wing extremist party Heimat (former NPD), too. I wonder if they had to provide every member’s name, too. What do you think?
They took away the Jewish Voice’s right of disposal of the account precisely at a time when they urgently need it. While giving quite shady reasons for doing so. So I think, at least as far as we’re not talking in legal terms here, seizing is definitely a proper word to call it. Especially when used by the victims of that treatment.
Who are Jews in Germany lest you forget. And I would like to remind you of the fact, that it’s ‘the Jews’ that we have a moral duty (acquired by the murder of millions) to protect from injustice, not just ‘the Jews who spread rightwing extremist Israeli government propaganda’.
People who don’t give a shit about Palestinian rights and lives defend Jewish Voice’s treatment by the Sparkasse. But obviously they‘d rather just ignore it. Which works pretty fine throughout German politics and media. So I consider you having to defend it (at least here on social media) a little success for the Palestinian cause.