- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- world@lemmy.world
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10 points for the clickbaity title.
Äh, isn’t what the headline describes exactly what happened?
No, it’s a bank in Germany that locked the bank account of a Jewish organization. Neither did Germany do it, nor has the money been seized
Well, the bank is owned by the state 100%. And the money is needed to fund a conference that’s trying to give the Palestinian narrative a platform.
The Palestinian narrative is btw far more in line with international law and with the findings of international human rights groups and historians (including Israeli human rights groups and historians) and even with common sense.
Therefore Germany (even more than the rest of the Western world) is quite eager to shut it up. But just as the support of Israel is our raison d’état, we want to be seen as if democracy and human rights are our raisons d’état equally.
So, like Israel plausibly committing genocide and ethnical cleansing and collective punishment, Germany is still at the stage of using pretexts and henchmen to do the dirty work of anti-democratically sabotage pro-Palestinian participation in German society’s discourse.
The bank in question (Sparkasse) btw manages the account of the right-wing extremist party Heimat (former NPD), too. I wonder if they had to provide every member’s name, too. What do you think?
They took away the Jewish Voice’s right of disposal of the account precisely at a time when they urgently need it. While giving quite shady reasons for doing so. So I think, at least as far as we’re not talking in legal terms here, seizing is definitely a proper word to call it. Especially when used by the victims of that treatment.
Who are Jews in Germany lest you forget. And I would like to remind you of the fact, that it’s ‘the Jews’ that we have a moral duty (acquired by the murder of millions) to protect from injustice, not just ‘the Jews who spread rightwing extremist Israeli government propaganda’.
People who don’t give a shit about Palestinian rights and lives defend Jewish Voice’s treatment by the Sparkasse. But obviously they‘d rather just ignore it. Which works pretty fine throughout German politics and media. So I consider you having to defend it (at least here on social media) a little success for the Palestinian cause.
I did not defend it, I merely corrected the headline. There isn’t a grand order to seize Jewish money in Germany like the headline suggests, this is a singular problem (yes, it is a problem) and it should be reported as one. This whole issue will realistically come out in two ways: either some Sparkasse employee fucked up (accidentally or maliciously) or the organization fucked up their paperwork and the bank did a standard procedure. Either way, it will come out and it will be resolved.
Is that really less probable than Scholz, Faeser or any other relevant politician calling some bank to lock a single bank account of a single pro-palestine organization?
It will be “solved”, but the case is time sensitive because they need the money to support a pro-Palestinian conference in April.
And they collected donations for that purpose. So them and me suspect the bank to use that purpose as pretext to freeze the money.
And of course nobody is doing that to them out of Antisemitism. They’re being accused of being Antisemites on the cause of being pro-Palestinian.
Our anti-Antisemitism is just pro-Israelism. An ideology which promotes and supports Antisemitism.
And using that ideology to harass Jews looks like an extra perfidious Antisemitism to me.
There is an easy way to make Pro-Palestinian voices be heard in Germany’s public discourse, stop being silent about the atrocities committed by Hamas. It’s not like the German public is a big fan of Netanyahu, Settlers or starving Palestinians. But it is very hard to support a group constantly victimizing themselves, while there is video footage showing members of its side celebrating the rape and murder of a woman by parading her naked corpse through the streets.
I didn’t see that footage. If it’s really existing and not just a rumour generated by the Israeli propaganda machine (you know, like the beheaded babies and the mass rape and the playing ball with cut-off breasts shit), I would consider it a proof of the enormous hatred that many Palestinians bear in their hearts for Israeli people.
Israel’s leadership is trying to make us believe that this hatred is just part of the Palestinian culture. They try to keep us from empathizing with them.
But human beings are able to commit the most horrific crimes against others and against humanity, we all know that.
The Hamas atrocities and the Israeli narrative of why the atrocities on the October 7 happened of the conflict in general are omnipresent in the German discourse.
The Israeli narrative about the legitimacy of the state of Israel has even become part of our raison d’état.
I think that the German public has a right to learn about the Palestinian narrative of that matter. In fact I am convinced that it is nearer to the historical truth (as I learned from Israeli historians like Avi Shlaim or Ilan Pappé). It’s even nearer to common sense than the Israeli one.
So there seems to be a valid reason why German authorities and you seem so eager to shut up Palestinian voices.
But it’s not right and it proposes and supports Antisemitism.
Well, the money wasn’t “seized” and having jewish members doen’t necessarily have anything to do with the business decision. It could, but we don’t know. Could also be the case this protest group filed the wrong paperwork / chose the wrong legal status for their organization and just breached contract. Also a single bank (despite being publicly owned) isn’t Germany.
So the words “Germany” and “Seizing” are wrong. “Jews” is speculation. I’m fine with the words “Is” “Money,” “again”.
Also the “Jews’” in the title implies “the money of any Jewish person” essentially, when it was just a single specific organisation.
No, it doesn’t.
Yes, ir does.
Do you understand the difference between “Jewish” and “Jews’”?
One means Jewish, eg, happening to be Jewish. The other means “that of the Jews”, ie collectively belonging to thr group, not just being the property of someone’s from the group.
“I take Jews’ money.” means I take money from people who are Jewish.
As even your example shows, if I want to say that I take it from all the Jews, the wording should be the(!) Jews
But what pisses me off is: I am convinced that we’re having this stupid conversation just because you, like German media and authorities, are okay with shutting up pro-Palestinian voices, even or especially when they are Jewish.
That’s not how language works, but I understand that you’re desperate to defend your indoctrination.
The title implies exactly what I’ve said it does. To refuse that is to try to share gaslight the goy, as you’d call us.
I’m anti-genocide, which means I’m pro-palestine, because Israel is committing a genocide, killing thousands and thousands of innocents. Why would you pretend that IDF propaganda isn’t as big of a thing as it is when you’re supposedly “pro-Palestinian”?
This is sensationalist headlining which clearly implies that “just like in WWII when the Nazis stole the money of ALL the Jewish people, IT’S HAPPENING AGAIN, THEY’RE TAKING THE MONEY”. Anyone who pretends it doesn’t is either illiterate, delusional and/or severely brainwashed.
The headline is outright garbage given the article’s content.
GermanyA German bank IsSeizingfreezingJewsJewish organization’sMoneybank account over alleged pro-Palestine stanceNo, it isn’t.
Well, the bank is owned by the state 100%. And the money is needed to fund a conference that’s trying to give the Palestinian narrative a platform.
The Palestinian narrative is btw far more in line with international law and with the findings of international human rights groups and historians (including Israeli human rights groups and historians) and even with common sense.
Therefore Germany (even more than the rest of the Western world) is quite eager to shut it up. But just as the support of Israel is our raison d’état, we want to be seen as if democracy and human rights are our raisons d’état equally.
So, like Israel plausibly committing genocide and ethnical cleansing and collective punishment, Germany is still at the stage of using pretexts and henchmen to do the dirty work of anti-democratically sabotage pro-Palestinian participation in German society’s discourse.
The bank in question (Sparkasse) btw manages the account of the right-wing extremist party Heimat (former NPD), too. I wonder if they had to provide every member’s name, too. What do you think?
They took away the Jewish Voice’s right of disposal of the account precisely at a time when they urgently need it. While giving quite shady reasons for doing so. So I think, at least as far as we’re not talking in legal terms here, seizing is definitely a proper word to call it. Especially when used by the victims of that treatment.
Who are Jews in Germany lest you forget. And I would like to remind you of the fact, that it’s ‘the Jews’ that we have a moral duty (acquired by the murder of millions) to protect from injustice, not just ‘the Jews who spread rightwing extremist Israeli government propaganda’.
People who don’t give a shit about Palestinian rights and lives defend Jewish Voice’s treatment by the Sparkasse. But obviously they‘d rather just ignore it. Which works pretty fine throughout German politics and media. So I consider you having to defend it (at least here on social media) a little success for the Palestinian cause.
I hope they can get their bank account restored. Certainly seems like a questionable move by the bank, though it’s entirely possible we’re missing more context.
But also, that headline is polemic bullshit that could just as easily come from a tabloid like The Sun.
Certainly seems like a questionable move by the bank, though it’s entirely possible we’re missing more context.
There was an article yesterday explaining that the frozen account belongs to an organisation that funds other organisations. One of those is accused of supporting/funding terrorism. So at the end, the bank has no choice and nothing to decide on their own, once they get knowledge of this accused connection. Otherwise they would to get dragged into the case as well and prosecution against them could be opened. Which is why they froze the bank account for now and sent a questionnaire about the organisation and their members to evaluate the situation. That is all, nothing was seized, the title is a lie.
“Today should be a day of celebration for supporters of democracy and human rights worldwide, as Gazans break out of their open-air prison and Hamas fighters cross into their colonisers’ territory. The struggle for freedom is rarely bloodless and we shouldn’t apologise for it.”
– Rivkah Brown, commissioning editor at Novara Media, on the morning of the 2023 Hamas-led attack on Israel
So? She’s right.
The [pro-Palestine Jewish activist] group suspects the move was triggered by its involvement in a forthcoming pro-Palestine conference that has attracted intense scorn from the German mainstream.
Even the group itself claims the account freeze (which is, btw, not the same as ‘seizing money’) was due to its pro-Palestine stance (and not bc the group is Jewish).
Bank accounts shouldn’t be frozen bc and organisation is Jewish nor bc its pro-Palestine, but what the title suggests is obviously completely different from the article’s content.
I’d also agree with what is already said in this thread. There’s a lot wrong with the way how this story is framed.
Intersectionality is a great analytical tool. Jewish Voice for Peace found themselves to be in the intersection of being both Jewish and anti-zionists. German government policies and often German people (even from the left or antifa), fail take this intersection into consideration.
But do we really need this analytical tool for this topic? When a person knows the historical relation between zionism and fascism, why would they support zionists or zionist policies?
Great article, thanks.
From a comment in a duplicate post
yeah, lol, they’re not Jewish, they aren’t a voice for Jews, and their end goal is the destruction of the Jewish state by any means necessary, they support every terrorist organization to have ever threatened and attacked actual Jews in Israel, and they are as far from a peace organization as you can possibly get. their very name is Jew baiting. they are demons.
Thats bullshit. It is particularly heinous that in Germany Germans think they get to decide who is a “real jew” and who isnt. Denying jewish ethnic or cultural heritage based on political positions is antisemtic bullshit.
Yeah, that’s like current finding the shortest path. Most have been cut, but.
In general dramatic moralizing behavior and deciding who’s a real Jew seems to be a phenomenon too often exhibited by Germans.
Like “our ancestors have committed terrible crimes, but we’ve repented and now we are somehow better for it than if those crimes wouldn’t happen”. People tend to try and justify that their group is exceptional from every big historical event uniting it. So I’d prefer that Germans just wouldn’t touch the Holocaust card, they don’t understand the limitations and thus cross them too often.
