A crowd destroyed a driverless Waymo car in San Francisco::A Waymo car was destroyed in San Francisco as a crowd began vandalizing it and ultimately set the car on fire. Nobody was in the vehicle at the time.

  • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
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    9 months ago

    It may be spontaneous.

    It may be destructive.

    But goddammit, it’s collective action and I’m thrilled to fucking see it.

      • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        If you’re going to reply wishing for my death at the hands of a mob, don’t be such a pussy and delete it after a few downvotes.

        • deafboy@lemmy.world
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          9 months ago

          Yeah, sorry. It was a bit too much. You’re comment still pisses me off, but I’ve crossed the line.

            • deafboy@lemmy.world
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              9 months ago

              Not especially. Maybe it’s the war happening next door, but I’ve became increasingly sensitive to people condoning a physical violence for a greater good. (And yes, I realize the irony). Having the ability to just walk the street without getting hurt is an incredible privilege that people often disregard.

              • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
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                9 months ago

                It’s a robot car, made by tech oligarchs who are currently eating the world alive.

                Fuck them.

                • deafboy@lemmy.world
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                  9 months ago

                  I don’t give a shit who owns the car. The car is inconsequential. Might as well be a trashcan, or a coffee shop. Lighting shit on fire on the street sets a dangerous precedent. The subsequent rioters won’t stop and check who’s property they’re about to vandalize. It might as well belong to you, or your family. That was my entire point.

                  • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
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                    9 months ago

                    They didn’t continue to destroy the area. There wasn’t a mass attack on people, or other property.

                    Tech companies own the California political and legal systems. Alphabet/Waymo used that ill-gotten influence to bypass the will of the citizens and be allowed to use SF as the testing grounds for this new technology.

                    With the political and legal systems are already bought and paid for, your suggestion is what? That they just submit?

    • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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      9 months ago

      This is dumb as fuck. Human drivers are literally the number one cause of preventable fatalities.

      • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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        9 months ago

        Humans are literally responsible for all preventable things in society. This take is also “dumb as fuck”

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          9 months ago

          Humans are literally responsible for all preventable things in society.

          Did I says “humans” or did I say “human drivers”? We’re not talking about liquidating all humans, we’re talking about replacing them at the task of driving.

          Totally no other spots in society where machines have replaced formerly human done tasks to make work safer, what a crazy idea that is right! /s

          • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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            9 months ago

            Yes and saying “human drivers” are often at fault when talking about smashing up motor vehicles is just as silly.

            As you can also say; Hey, did you know that 100% of deaths related with driverless cars involved software?

                • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                  9 months ago

                  While I agree that data should be public, them not wanting every crash to be reported on publicly probably has something to do with the fact that mobs are burning their cars down at the present moment, even though they’re statistically safer than normal drivers.

                  • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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                    9 months ago

                    even though they’re statistically safer than normal drivers.

                    Safer according to Waymo data, who has a history of and is currently hiding data.

      • barsoap@lemm.ee
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        9 months ago

        Individual transportation is the number one cause of preventable road fatalities, human or machine doesn’t matter.

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          9 months ago

          Individual transportation is the number one cause of preventable road fatalities,

          Even in an ideally car-free society, you will literally never be able to get rid of taxis, deliveries, moving large furniture / household items, etc. without some form of enclosed motorized transportation (a car for the purposes of this discussion).

          human or machine doesn’t matter

          If we make machines that are safer than humans than yeah, it will.

          • barsoap@lemm.ee
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            9 months ago

            Even in an ideally car-free society, you will literally never be able to get rid of taxis, deliveries, moving large furniture / household items, etc. without some form of enclosed motorized transportation (a car for the purposes of this discussion).

            That’s not individual transportation. None of it. And do imagine how your city would look like if those were the only vehicles on the roads. Go to the next intersection, count cars, see how many of them would be gone, how much road surface could be converted into a tram lane, comfortable bike lanes, greenery, also, a hot dog stand.

            If we make machines that are safer than humans than yeah, it will.

            Malaria might be less severe than the bubonic plague still doesn’t mean I want to catch it.

            • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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              9 months ago

              Well the don’t shift goal posts to “individual transportation” when we’re talking about people thrashing a self driving car.

              They didn’t trash a normal individual transporter.

              • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                9 months ago

                You can do automated taxis, deliveries and moving services, not so much.

                • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                  9 months ago

                  You can still automate the driving part of moving and delivery services, which is the dangerous part.

                  • barsoap@lemm.ee
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                    9 months ago

                    No. Not securing loads is the dangerous part. You need a human in there anyway and with the current sorry state of driving automation best you can do is have them browse the delivery list while the car is handling a traffic jam.

                    There’s a reason you don’t see the likes of UPS or DHL get into automated cars, but venture capital moonshot tech companies promising nonsense on the one hand, as well as traditional car manufacturers with way more reasonable claims. IIRC Audi is actually leading the pack.

                    And it’s not like UPS or DHL know nothing about vehicles, they’re driving custom orders. DHL even was a manufacturer for some time.

      • circuscritic@lemmy.ca
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        9 months ago

        Great, so anything that humans do that can potentially harm another human, should be given to the algorithms instead?

        Sure, they’re private for-profit blackbox algorithms, but it’s obviously better then letting humans do things.

        Don’t worry, I’m sure once the tech oligarchs have secured just another 25% control over our daily lives, they’ll start the giving back and bettering humanity parts of their business plans.

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          9 months ago

          Great, so anything that humans do that can potentially harm another human, should be given to the algorithms instead?

          Uh yeah, once it’s proven safer why wouldn’t you?

          Because you’re scared of the word algorithm?

          Don’t worry, I’m sure once the tech oligarchs have secured just another 25% control over our daily lives, they’ll start the giving back and bettering humanity parts of their business plans.

          You seem to have an issue with wealth distribution, not autonomous vehicles.

          • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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            9 months ago

            You seem to have an issue with wealth distribution, not autonomous vehicles.

            How much could an autonomous car cost Michael, $10?

            • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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              9 months ago

              We’re talking about a taxi service, not an individual’s car. Waymo is not example of wealth inequality, unless the brush you use is as broad as "requires technology to run = tech bro devilry’.

              • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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                9 months ago

                Happen to know the cost of one Waymo taxi vs one taxi plus a person making a living from driving that taxi? I do know that Waymo charges more and almost all info is hidden.

                • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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                  9 months ago

                  In 2021 it cost Waymo ~$180k for a brand new Jaguar i-pace with all their sensors and computers outfitted. Given that 2021 i-paces started at $70k, we’re looking at ~$100k for the sensors and computers necessary.

                  • M0oP0o@mander.xyz
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                    9 months ago

                    So since a taxi driver in san fran makes (according to a quick google) $48,384 a year we can assume this means they need at least 2 years out of these to break even. This is assuming it does not get set on fire from the driver who is now out of a job.

      • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
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        9 months ago

        The fact that a thing most people do and some for hours daily has a large effect shouldn’t be surprising

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          9 months ago

          The fact that a thing most people do and some for hours daily has a large effect shouldn’t be surprising

          Oh wow, what good reasoning!

          Let’s all take up smoking cigarettes indoors all day, it’s incredibly dangerous and is killing mass numbers of people on a literal daily basis, but that’s fine because everyone’s doing it, so the effect shouldn’t be surprising, so that makes it ok and not worth addressing!

          /s

          • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml
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            9 months ago

            That’s not the argument I’m making. What I’m saying is that if you only take the raw numbers for a given event into account, and don’t consider the population of the event, then you can make any event affecting a large population look like an urgent affair when it’s not so urgent

            Human driven cars should be replaced with automation (or even better, automated public transportation) as soon as it’s viable. It’s not yet, so we should not rush corporations to put their unsafe vehicles on the street. Because then the only thing you’ll rush is transforming human driver fatalities into robotic driver fatalities, and you never know how worse things can get

            Edit: Wording

            • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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              9 months ago

              and don’t consider the population of the event, then you can make any event affecting a large population look like an urgent affair when it’s not so urgent

              How is this different from my cigarettes analogy? You’re just arguing it’s not a big deal that hundreds of people are dying on a daily basis, because a lot of people drive.

              rushing for corporations to put their unsafe vehicles on the street should not be rushed

              Fully agreed.

              Human driven cars should be replaced with automation (or even better, automated public transportation) as soon as it’s viable. It’s not yet

              Except that it is. Waymo already has a safer per mile rating than human drivers.

      • Melllvar@startrek.website
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        9 months ago

        I wouldn’t hang my hat on that statistic until after autonomous cars make up a significant portion of cars on the road.

        • masterspace@lemmy.ca
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          9 months ago

          Fair point, but the difference is that human drivers are already at roughly their limit for how good they can drive, but self driving cars have the potential to exceed us.

          It’s similar to one of the biggest arguments in electric vs gas cars. Even if electric cars today are just as environmentally unfriendly as gas cars (they’re not) the difference is that gas technology is super mature and there’s very little improvements to be made by spending more money on it, electric battery technology on the other hand, is still in it’s relative infancy and has huge potential to improve in numerous ways, but that can only happen if more people buy electric so more R&D money can be spent on it.