And so it begins. Nine months still to go before the next US presidential election and already the Republican party favourite and former President Donald Trump is sending eyes rolling skywards with his seemingly outlandish statements.

And yet they will delight many of his supporters.

Suggesting at a rally in South Carolina that he would “encourage” aggressors (for example Russia) “to do whatever the hell they want” with Nato countries that fail to pay their dues has prompted an immediate slap down from the White House. A spokesman called the comment “appalling and unhinged”, saying it was “encouraging invasions of our closest allies by murderous regimes”.

Nato Secretary-general Jens Stoltenberg has also responded forcefully, saying: “Any suggestion that allies will not defend each other undermines all of our security, including that of the US, and puts American and European soldiers at increased risk.”

  • NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    53
    arrow-down
    35
    ·
    9 months ago

    We’re going to get Trump again (barf) because the DNC insists on running shit candidates and refuses to acknowledge that they are bad, instead insisting that the voters are just too ignorant to understand how good their candidates really are.

    Hillary Clinton was a horrible candidate: immensely unpopular even with the Democrat base, running on a status quo platform right in the wake of disappointment with Obama’s failure to deliver on “hope and change”, and acting as if she was somehow entitled to the position.

    Biden is not as bad as Clinton in most ways, but is utterly lackluster and feels more like a moderate Republican. His unwavering support for Israel during their campaign of atrocities is despicable and shameful. The fact that he’s totally ancient and losing his mind isn’t helpful in the least. Why can’t we have a more compelling candidate from the DNC?!

    This post will get modded down and ignored, as will the incredibly common and widespread sentiment that it expresses, and we will get Trump again as the nation and the DNC acts shocked yet again. It’s so predictable and infuriating.

    • FaceDeer@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      71
      arrow-down
      13
      ·
      9 months ago

      His unwavering support for Israel during their campaign of atrocities is despicable and shameful.

      If we’re going to get Trump again it’s in part because of the absolutely all-or-nothing brook-no-compromise attitude of voters. Like this, for example. Biden’s support has not been unwavering, he’s criticized Israel’s actions. But not enough for you, and so he gets no credit whatsoever for any moderation he might have. And that’s why you say he “feels like a Republican” to you, because someone can only be 100% totally on your side or they must be on the other side.

      I’d love for there to be a viable fully-progressive candidate who happened to agree with everything I believe in. I’d also love to have a pet unicorn. When elections actually roll around in reality, though, none of the candidates are going to be perfect. And unfortunately in many first-past-the-post electorates the system is set up in such a way that there are only two viable candidates. So pick the one that’s closest to your views. Push for better candidates in the primary, of course, but accept that you won’t always get everything you want.

      • Toldry@lemmy.world
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        14
        arrow-down
        2
        ·
        9 months ago

        All the people critisizing “”“Genocide Joe”“” give me a aneurysm when cosidering their alternative:

        Attacking Biden, Ben Gvir says Trump would have been more supportive of Israel

        National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir harshly criticized the Biden administration’s handling of the war in Gaza, accusing it of benefitting Hamas and arguing that Israel would have been better off dealing with a second Trump administration.

        “Instead of giving us his full backing, [President Joe] Biden is busy with giving humanitarian aid and fuel, which goes to Hamas,” Ben Gvir declared in an interview with the Wall Street Journal published on Sunday. “If Trump was in power, the U.S. conduct would be completely different.”

        • Pratai@lemmy.ca
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          5
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          Yep. The uninformed gEnoCiDe jOe kids are obnoxious. I’ve tried in the beginning to calmly reason with them and explain how things work and I’ve been met with being reported and even banned from a few instances.

          Now, when I see them- I just block them from my feed. It’s not worth it. They don’t want to know what they’re doing is dangerous to democracy.

      • rusticus@lemm.ee
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        18
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        9 months ago

        Get out of reddit and take your reasonable pragmatic opinion with you.

        • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          25
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          9 months ago

          Thats what i did. Day one, and im already banned from world news on Lemmy as well now. For calling out russian talking points when they came up.

          • rusticus@lemm.ee
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            11
            arrow-down
            3
            ·
            9 months ago

            Then you’re doing it right my friend. Hexbear and lemmy.world are overrun by Putin sympathizers who want nothing more than chaos and the continued decline of western democracy.

              • rusticus@lemm.ee
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                1
                ·
                9 months ago

                Only if your message was “I’m sick of your anti-American Russian apologists. Please ban me.” in which case that was a BDE move.

                • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
                  link
                  fedilink
                  arrow-up
                  1
                  ·
                  9 months ago

                  Close enough?

                  Hey, sorry to bother you, but apparently within less than one day ive been banned from World News after calling out russian propagandists. I would like to ask for a bit of clarification on which rules of the sub ive broken. Its concerning that clear kremlin talking posts are not only espoused and upvoted, but that they hold enough sway to get those who call them out for being what they are banned.

                  I did not call for violence, at worst you could call this a difference of opinion. Is Lemmy this far down the propaganda hole as well?

                  • rusticus@lemm.ee
                    link
                    fedilink
                    arrow-up
                    1
                    ·
                    9 months ago

                    I have not found lemmy mods to be reasonable or empathetic at all. They don’t give a shit about your opinion so you are likely wasting your time. If it bothers you, just block that instance. If you still want to torture yourself just make another lemmy user. I moved to lemm.ee and cancelled my lemmy.world for this reason.

            • Pan_Ziemniak@midwest.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              2
              arrow-down
              2
              ·
              9 months ago

              I was on lemmy.world and no difference. Just pure, unadulterated, kremlin talking points at every corner. But dont u dare call em out! I saw someone point out the accidental russian spelling of a word to being swarmed downvotes.

      • NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        15
        arrow-down
        21
        ·
        9 months ago

        That’s the thing though. Biden doesn’t represent my views and voting for him to keep Trump out will be interpreted by the DNC as an endorsement of him and a reason not to change their platform to better suit the electorate. I’ve been doing this lesser-of-two-evils thing for decades now and the outcome keeps getting worse. Maybe it’s just a bad strategy.

        The platform of “vote for us or we’ll let the other guy ravage society” is not a compelling platform and rewarding them for running on that platform isn’t going to end well for us. This will turn out for us how paying the Danegeld always does.

        • TheDoozer@lemmy.world
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          27
          arrow-down
          4
          ·
          edit-2
          9 months ago

          You’ll vote lesser of two evils in most elections pretty much until the other side starts putting up reasonable candidates. Blaming Democrats for not giving you decent choice just completely misses the point: The Republicans choosing fascism means they aren’t a viable choice. They are removing choice from the ballot, not Democrats. You’re not being forced into anything by Democrats, they are simply running a platform that you should have the opportunity to disagree with, but you can’t, because the other side is fascism.

          But let’s take the approach of “not rewarding them” for putting out shitty candidates (that aren’t fascist). Do you think once the fascists get into power, that Dems will even have the opportunity to change? What is your end game, because not voting for the lesser evil is the acceptance and indifference of either evil, and allows the worst evil to win.

          The time for that fight is the primary, local elections, and between election cycles. Refusing to participate at the ballot box because you don’t like the choices you’ve been given is counterproductive, not just pointless.

        • FaceDeer@kbin.social
          link
          fedilink
          arrow-up
          19
          arrow-down
          8
          ·
          9 months ago

          Maybe it’s a bad strategy, but it may still be the best strategy.

          The main point of my post is that even if you don’t like Biden, you should at least be truthful in your complaints about him. If you paint him as worse than he actually is then instead of people holding their nose and voting for him they may just not vote at all, or worse.

          • NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            10
            ·
            9 months ago

            Just to elaborate, the only real currency we have with the parties is cold hard cash (where we’re hopelessly outgunned) and votes. Giving away our votes without demanding something in return is selling ourselves short. We will /never/ have any sort of real change or progress if we hold our nose and vote for the lesser of two evils. We will only continue to lose ground as we devalue our votes by giving them away for nothing.

            I see what you’re saying and I subscribed to that strategy long ago, but in the long run it’s clearly a losing strategy.

            • FaceDeer@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              13
              arrow-down
              3
              ·
              9 months ago

              So what’s the winning strategy? Let Trump win instead?

              The world isn’t perfect. Holding out for a perfect candidate means never voting, at which point you have nothing to bargain with either.

              Go ahead and vote your conscience in the primaries, sure. It’s not such a big deal if you hold out for perfect in those. But in the American election system the actual vote for president is going to be between Trump and Biden. It sucks but you get just those two options there.

              • Instigate@aussie.zone
                link
                fedilink
                arrow-up
                10
                arrow-down
                2
                ·
                9 months ago

                There’s a phrase I’m reminded of as it’s used in Australian politics quite often when it comes to our Greens party trying amend Labor legislation:

                Don’t let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

                That is, don’t let your quest for the best possible outcome one prevent you from supporting a lesser outcome. Don’t let wanting a super progressive president prevent you from voting for the mildly progressive president which lets the regressive president end up winning.

          • NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            2
            arrow-down
            11
            ·
            9 months ago

            I don’t like him in that he’s further down the wrong path than we’ve ever been with a Democrat president. He’s further down that path than Nixon or Bush Sr. Holding our noses isn’t working out for us.

            I think that the Democratic Party needs to really grasp that it has to work for its votes and build a platform that genuinely attracts voters instead of talking them for granted. I thought the first Trump incident would drive that home for them, but maybe it will take another. Holding our noses will only tell them that they will reliably get votes as long as they’re not as bad as the other guy.

            Getting rid of first-past-the-post and breaking up the stranglehold that the D/R dichotomy has on our government is the best strategy, and is in progress, but it’s slow and resisted by the same parties.

            • FaceDeer@kbin.social
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              9
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              9 months ago

              Getting rid of first-past-the-post and breaking up the stranglehold that the D/R dichotomy has on our government is the best strategy

              Certainly. But can you get it done before the next election? If not, the choice will be between Biden or Trump.

          • NobodyElse@sh.itjust.works
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            3
            arrow-down
            6
            ·
            9 months ago

            100%, May he DIAF. Or were you insinuating that any opposition to Biden (and Trump) can only come from Russian trolls?

    • Bipta@kbin.social
      link
      fedilink
      arrow-up
      5
      arrow-down
      2
      ·
      9 months ago

      Before New Hampshire’s primary I thought Biden was fucked.

      I’m still worried now, but I’m no longer sure we’re doomed.