There are a lot of reasons not to give them your money. They’re assholes to the maker community and they openly talk shit on a lot of their customer base. That’s beside the point, though, really.
It’s just not a spectacular option for hosting. In order to get a Rpi competitive with even the shittiest laptop from 7 years ago, you’re going to end up spending more than you would spend on a decent laptop from 7 years ago.
If it is a computer that turns on, it will likely function orders of magnitude better than an Rpi and won’t bind you to ARM architecture. My entire hosting setup was pulled out of a recycling pile for free. Install ubuntu/ubuntu server and enjoy yourself.
If you intend on spending any amount of money on this hobby, I cannot express enough how much I recommend against any of that money going toward a Raspberry Pi.
EDIT: A lot of you seem to be reading this as “Raspberry Pis are all nonfunctional” and getting mad about it. Don’t do that.
Edit 2: Good to see that all the stupid parts of reddit made it here
I love to hate claims like this. it’s like a fart, but ends up being a shart. No truth in the source and unjustified noise and grumbles that leaves a mess and confuses people for no reason.
Do yourself a favor, either cite links that legitimize your claims or just sign off, you’re hangry.
I’m just here to say that I’ve never heard any of the negative claims that OP makes from anyone else before.
What I have seen and heard is that the RPi foundation doing a lot of good by providing low cost computers for educational use and anyone else who wants a good, small, and cheap computer.
Yes and, classically, if you specifically haven’t heard or looked into something, it’s not true so my bad
It really doesn’t matter to me that much if you live the rest of your life being wrong. Google is free.
They’re assholes to the maker community and they openly talk shit on a lot of their customer base.
You got receipts for such a strong claim?
deleted by creator
Yes
- refuses to elaborate
- leaves
Sounds about right
So you admit talking out of your ass?
Absolutely not
Would you like to provide those receipts?
No.
This post seems like it’s more about OP having an ideological axe to grind with the Raspberry Pi Foundation. Which is fine - they (and Broadcom, by extension) have made a few tactical errors in the past.
I’d still consider them an overall force of good, especially when the majority of the low-cost SBC market appears to be saturated with Rockchip-based boards with little to no support for mainline Linux.
The arguments about power usage and software compatibility seem to be a bit disingenuous, however. Except for low-power Intel Atom/Ryzen Embedded offerings, vast majority of x86(_x64) platforms are going to consume a lot more power for roughly equivalent performance as more recent ARM counterparts. Most common self-hosted services usually do have ARM binary/image distributions.
Raspberry PIs got me into Linux, python, networking and a whole bunch more.
Now, that’s my job.PIs are great for tinkering or quick jobs, specifically if you need GPIO or GPIO related peripherals and networking/monitor.
For anything that needs a computer with an ethernet port (web serving, pihole, docker, whatever) then buy some cheap knock-off or refurbished low power device.
For anything that only needs the GPIO then get some MSP32.I’ve used PIs for doing crazy adapters between hardware and network. And they are awesome for that.
I’ve built a few projects that have also had a GUI. Also awesome for that.
But low powered PCs don’t have the native GPIO support at the same cost.
And a lot of the knock-offs don’t have the same library support. And certainly don’t have the Linux support.However, I made this decision a few years ago.
So, it’s possible that my opinion is now out dated, and competitors have really picked up.
It’s also easier for me to spend $100 knowing a pi will do it, as opposed to gambling (or spending more time/support time) on a more reasonably priced SBC.I’ve also found the Raspberry RP2040 to be a very good option for low-cost micro-controller development (also comes with optional Wi-Fi support, so can be used for ESP32-esque IoT based operations). The datasheet and board development documents are extremely detailed, and it is a first-class target for CircuitPython and Arduino-based development.
The programmable state machine / PIO functionality is a feature that particularly stands out to me. You get some of the functionality of the FPGA (albeit extremely limited by comparison to actual FPGAs) at a fraction of the cost.
I’d still consider them an overall force of good
Maybe rpi, but broadcom absolutely isn’t. They are one of the worst companies to work with in embedded.
You seem to have conveniently left out power consumption.
I agree they are very pricey these days. Are there any competitiors that offer cheap low-power consumption computers?
It will not be that great like on Raspberry Pi, but Mini PC are also very low on energy. For example,. Wyse 5070 with J5005 idles around 3-5 W, which is really great. i had HP 800 Mini G3 that idled ~7-8W. Mini PCs are more powerful, expandable and can use normal SSD Drive. For selfhosting they are better, but in some places Raspberry Pi (or alternative like Orange Pi) will be better, especially when you need something small and really low power
I never heard of the orange pi!
Some of the models are very cheap. Have you tried them? If they are as reliable, I might get myself one for a couple of projects.
I got an 1 gig Orange pi zero 2 with a 2 port USB expansion board. I got it from ali express with a 32gigabyte micro SD card, USB to USBC charging cable for like $40.
I 3d printed a case for it. Provisioned it with a heatsink, fan, 18W USB power supply, and a UPS.
I use it as an octoprint server, the extra USB ports go to a webcam and a fan if i feel like it. It’s been reliable but I’ve only had it a month. Transferring jobs is nearly instant plugged into gigabit ethernet. Transfer is via API key not web interface. Seems to do alright in the CPU department. It has to parse some of the larger jobs for a minute.
Prints perfectly. Only had one resent packet USB packet so far. After it prints rendering out 1080P time-lapses was slow. It would hit like 70% cpu usage and take hours. Rendering out 1080P octolapses with fewer frames and less movement would hit 98% cpu use but be done very fast - like 10 min.
They just announced an orange pi zero 3 with a similar form factor (but not exactly the same) and larger faster memory.
Yes. I have Orange Pi Zero 2 with 1 GB of RAM running Ubuntu. This is actually very powerful machine, more powerful than my Raspberry Pi 3B+. i bought it for about 180 polish zloty (around 40 euros). I use it for printing server with Ghostscript printer app installed via Snap. I also tried Wireguard and MongoDB - everything works fine. it works really well, but it sits around 50 C on CPU, so it can get hot.
I tried one ~5-10 years ago and the idea was good but it didn’t have nearly the level of support that Raspis have.
Do you mean hardware-wise, or software?
A little bit of both IIRC.
It used a different chipset than the raspberry so it needed a tweaked version of Raspbian to run but the drivers weren’t great and the repos were missing a lot of stuff/outdated.
Ah thanks!
Yeah that’s gonna be tricky for me then… I really don’t like to deal with driver headaches.
I’ve definitely also had the experience of dodgy hardware support (in Armbian, which is all volunteer) with weird Chinese SBCs.
deleted by creator
Yeah, power consumption is never talked about enough when talking about that type of hardware. I do have an old PC I could use as a server, but I don’t need more heating at home. Mini-PCs are cool, but how cool are they?
But anyway, I haven’t been able to buy a RPi at decent price in years, so 🤷🏻♂️
You can use a thin client PC, which is usually uses <10 watt. Pi is even lower though, usually <5 watt.
deleted by creator
Removed by mod
I had some good experience with the pine64 boards!
Oh never looked into those, thanks!
I wanted to get something to use as a NAS server and/or a pi-hole.
Sure, yw :) There are also NAS cases for some of the SBCs, but I guess you can also go cheaper without a dedicated case and go with some icybox which allows you to connect some disks (jbod or RAID) via USB 3. So many possibilities!
You’d probably be shocked at how close a 65w supply charging a laptop battery at trickle voltages and a 2A 5v power supply maxed out 24/7 can come to each other
Do you have some source for that?
I can’t see an old laptop running 24/7 as being close to a raspberry pi performing the same tasks.
An RPi doesn’t max out a 2A 5V power supply unless its under heavy load. Idle is closer to half an amp.
If you’re hosting a server, you’re not going to get much idle time.
Heavily depends on the server, a game server sure, for almost anything else you’re probably doing it wrong.
Ok
What about a web server or a file server? Both are very much on-demand, so they’re chock full of idle time. Even NextCloud has a ton of idle time.
Edit: As an aside, I love your profile pic, it’s a cool wizard :)
Thank you! A tiktok follower who is a tattoo artist surprised me with a drawing of me with some toads and I’ve loved it more with each passing day
Removed by mod
Is it the best one? That’s a big claim with no evidence.
Removed by mod
As an engineer who has worked for a LONG time with both SBCs and other computers, that’s a stupid thing to say
Removed by mod
ok
There are a lot of reasons not to give them your money. They’re assholes to the maker community and they openly talk shit on a lot of their customer base.
Citation needed, Pi’s are just a single member of the broader SBC market. They are great for a lot of projects, especially for beginners who are their primary market, or those unfamiliar with Linux systems.
It’s just not a spectacular option for hosting. In order to get a Rpi competitive with even the shittiest laptop from 7 years ago, you’re going to end up spending more than you would spend on a decent laptop from 7 years ago.
Citation needed, currently for what I use my Pi’s for, they are massive overkill. A laptop has WAY more breakable, and less repairable parts. A pi is a SBC, nothing I don’t need. I don’t want a screen, I don’t want a keyboard, I don’t want an ancient battery that is probably bloated from being plugged in all the time, and I absolutely do not want a fan. Honestly the Pi zero is overkill for most of my stuff, I just do actually want a wired network port. Your measure of “competitive” is extremely flawed, because you assume the only thing a Pi is useful for is it’s raw number crunching power when that’s not at all what they are marketed towards. In all honesty, I’d love to see a laptop that was even 50% as good a a Pi, but for that weight and size you’re looking almost entirely at used phones, whose OS is significantly more locked down. Can’t exactly run Docker on Android, let alone dealing with running servers over wifi.
If it is a computer that turns on, it will likely function orders of magnitude better than an Rpi and won’t bind you to ARM architecture. My entire hosting setup was pulled out of a recycling pile for free. Install ubuntu/ubuntu server and enjoy yourself.
How could I mount a laptop to my garage door for presence detection of which car is coming and going? Would be kind of an eyesore wouldn’t you think, without even mentioning the weight problems. Laptops are massive compared to a Pi. For your point on ARM specifically, that’s a feature my friend. Alternative cpu architectures are pretty interesting, and I personally have been an avid RISC-V follower for years now, and am absolutely thrilled to bits waiting for a standardized RV solution like the Pi. How lucky of you to just be given everything for free, thanks for taking e-waste out of the landfills for a little while I guess. Most of us have to buy the products we use, maybe getting something from a friend once in a while.
If you intend on spending any amount of money on this hobby, I cannot express enough how much I recommend against any of that money going toward a Raspberry Pi.
What do you recommend instead?
Sounds like arduinos and a laptop is what you want
edit: sorry in advance for how unenthusiastic this response is. I’m real fucking tired of talking about this to a crowd of people who have already decided I could never be correct
Arduinos can’t really handle video encoding and presence detection on board. A laptop is extreme overkill, as I said in my post. Don’t want a battery, screen, keyboard, hinges, and fans are a deal breaker. Old laptops are bulky, heavy, have proprietary power bricks that are never cross compatible with each other. A laptop and a SBC are just totally different markets, and are used for totally different things.
For that workload, I’d use an ip can and offload the smarts to something like frigate running alongside the rest of my home automation stack. For smaller workloads it’s esp8266/32 all day long. Again, offloading the hard work to my home automation stack rubbing on decent hardware.
ok
Removed by mod
I went from 1 to 11 computers running 24/7 and haven’t seen a notable increase in power costs in the last year
That’s not very telling without more data. Most x86 laptops consume 10W idle, x86 desktop PCs 50W idle. Double or triple that for moderate usage.
RPis? 5W max.
It’s not only about electricity costs, it’s also about heat dissipated in your room, fan noise and more generally waste.
Two of them are thinkservers, three of them are thinkcentres, and the rest are optiplex workstations.
I’m mildly aligned with your main point OP. Rpi’s have a place and are amazing at many things, but over sold on lots of ‘server’ usages. For the typical homelabber, it’s a hobby so not a big deal that this hardware they likely already have (Rpi) isn’t the best.
However, this point about energy usage means you have either a large energy bill and can’t see the margin increase OR those 11 systems are mostly idle and you simply don’t need all of them running.
If I need something more powerful for stuff like my Minecraft server I use an old laptop running Fedora, but my pi 4 works great as a super low profile, low power, stable http and ssh server.
What’s this stuff about the pi foundation being assholes though, can someone fill me in?
My raspberrypi works great as a backup git server, as long as it doesn’t fall off my table and get stepped on or rolled over by my chair. I also host a few static webpages on it for cooking recipes.
It actually has better uptime than my desktop, which I occasionally boot into windows when I (rarely!) encounter a steam game that doesn’t work well on Linux.
It does not work well as a DLNA server though, though it seems to manage lower resolution videos okay. I think I tried both tried reading videos from the SD card, and a USB external hard drive.
I have mine in a closet so I don’t have that issue where it might fall on the floor and get destroyed.
It has significantly better uptime then my PC since I main windows on it (windows gives me more fps in games and I don’t wanna dual boot) and I restart right away whenever there’s an update
Im guessing it’s this: https://www.dexerto.com/tech/raspberry-pis-latest-hire-is-an-ex-cop-who-built-surveillance-devices-2009036/
Their PR and social media managers are pretty shit honestly. But I can’t say for the other founders, or if this applies to the the Raspberry Pi foundation itself.
If this was the reason for OPs claims about the foundation I really would rather they elaborate rather than the rest of us guess what they’re talking about.
and won’t bind you to ARM architecture
Just wait when people start self-hosting stuff in RISC-V machines lol
X86_64 being a duopoly is a worse scenario. So, I’m happy to fight in the middle of software poorly tested in different architectures.
Friends! Mixed architectures are always exciting, I cannot wait for something as standardized as the Pi for RISC-V.
Thank you for your service!
What if I care about power draw? Should I go for alternatives? BananaPi, OrangePi and so on?
If you need reallllly low draw like for battery powered devices then a pi could be the right choice. But x86 low power mobile/laptop CPUs in the last 5 years or so can get really close to a pi for power usage.
I have 2 systems with passively cooled i3-7100u CPUs and they idle at like 2W of power draw each.
A lot more expensive tho. Eh, I use my Pi only for Syncthing anyways.
That depends, I paid around $70 each IIRC. So at the original $35 price the Pi was cheaper, but it seems like they all go for $50+ now.
They’re more expensive, but check out ODroid H3+. Very low power consumption and great options for storage with pcie m.2 and on board SATA, and RAM slots.
Euuhh what? I used to use an old pc but found out I could save about NZ$100 per year on power by switching to an RPi4. It hosts about 15 things, like sonarr, radarr, home assistant, pi hole, nzbget, photoview, Frigate, and backups, without any issues. Yes it’s not super power full but it’s perfect for me.
You cant beat rpi with power usage, but PC can draw <10W on idle. Well my server is more like 20-25W, but thats 25ish € a year here. Rpi would be 5-10 € a year. I pay around 0.12 €/kwh in Croatia
What OS are you using with your RP4to host all that?
Just standard raspberry headless os. Everything running in containers except pi hole.
I’ve installed a heat sink and a fan, triggered at 70c. Also have set some cpu docker limits on eg frigate and nzbget to ensure it doesn’t take the rest down.
But it performs surprisingly well. Load is 1 on average, goes up a bit when eg motion is detected, an nzb is parred/extracted, or photoview is indexing stuff.
Also recently added Paperless. Set everything to minimum, eg one document at a time.
Pretty sure you can use the standard raspberry pi os and run all those apps with docker or k3s
Yep, correct. I had to set some cpu limits to make sure pihole stays responsive.
You cant beat rpi with power usage, but PC can draw <10W on idle. Well my server is more like 20-25W, but thats 25ish € a year here. Rpi would be 5-10 € a year. I pay around 0.12 €/kwh in Croatia. If you can save 100 nz$ you have hungry PC or your electricity is not cheap at all :)
I didn’t say that raspberry pis are nonfunctional.
There’s plenty of stuff that maybe I don’t want to self host on the same device and that I would rather host on RPI due to power consumption for example. Not all about money and recycling old computers, but regarding ecology also spending less energy it’s extremely important. Imagine a full desktop computer just to host pihole + pivpn, consuming 30w or more. Sorry but your statement is pretty bias.
You are correct, except the right word is “biased”
Thank you, didn’t notice.
Have you ever actually measured the power consumption of a computer?
Yes, i did. But take it as you want. Just an opinion.
I’ll trust my years of experience, you seem pretty biased.
Actually I run both rpi4, zeros, optiplex and home made servers. But do your own tests. Make sure you document them and send them to me to prove that your correct, because by your logic, with no proof, you look like the bias one having a rant on a dam hobby ;)
Also, does having even more servers than you’ve listed running within 3 feet of me count as a source the same way it does for you?
I’m an engineer in the field but go off, honey
Well, there are many Bad engineers out there, prime example:you
I remember being 12, too. Have fun it doesn’t last long
Good to know. After that answer I am know 100% that you are an expert. Maybe post your CV afterwards, “honey”
I don’t really care what you believe or if you live the rest of your life being wrong. I made a post about considering other hardware and the people who are sexually attracted to RPi are not stoked about it
What a spectacularly ironic post OP. You make an incredible claim while providing zero proof. Can you see how that makes you the asshole, talking shit about RPi foundation? On top of that you edited your post to call us all stupid for calling you out. Incredible.
I’ve been using Pi 4 since 2019 and it’s helped me manage stuff through the pandemic. I also overall agree with this post since I’ve spent many many hours diagnosing issues with the Pi that otherwise would not have happened on other mini PCs.
That said, there really isn’t a market for mini PCs in my region so this is what I’m stuck with for the foreseeable future.
The moderator team will take this as a learning opportunity. We don’t have any rules for this community specific to rudeness or insults. This post was fine as an opinion piece until Edit 2. For this reason, I’m locking the post. Additionally, we’ll be updated the community rules on the Sidebar shortly.
