This feels like a bit of a sideways take. I’ll preface this with that I love Linux, and its been my preferred operating system for years.
That being said, “helplessness” isn’t Microsoft’s fault. Most people do not want to know the ins-and-outs of how something works, and that’s perfectly okay. I am a software developer, but despite the fact that I have an Android (Pixel) phone I generally do not care to root my phone, flash alternative ROMs, etc anymore. I use Linux on my PC, but I do not want to spend hours tinkering with my phone, only for it to most likely end up in a state that is less-than-par than what it came with. I am glad that Android is open enough (well, its not as cut-and-dry as that but its more open than iOS) for the people who do want to tinker around with it to be able to do so, but its not for me. If I’m out and trying to request an Uber, I don’t want my phone to crash every time I open the app just because the ROM I’m using has a bug.
By the same token, there are times where I don’t really want to mess around with going through a million settings on my PC when I just need it to allow me to do some work. That is a trade-off that you tend to make with Linux (though its certainly gotten a lot better over the years), and I can’t fault people for not wanting to go through that. Sometimes, I wish I hadn’t made that trade-off and had just stayed blind to the love/hate relationship I’ve come to form around Linux.
I do not want to tinker around with my keyboard, I just want it to allow me to type. I don’t want to tinker around with my headphones, I just want to listen to music. I use my refrigerator every day, and while I have some rudimentary understanding of how it works, I really rather not tinker around with it - and if it stops working, you’re not likely to find me trying to fix it myself (short of say, the light bulb going out).
A coworker of mine convinced another coworker to wipe their system and install Fedora, and use the Looking Glass + VFIO passthrough trick to have a Windows VM within Linux like he does. He spent both of his days off trying to get it to work (and facing weird issues that even I couldn’t explain and find a solution for), and at the end of today he decided to reinstall Windows so that tomorrow he can have something reliable to use for work. This is exactly why I usually don’t push people to use Linux. If they want to know more about it, sure I’m happy to show them the ropes - but selling it as a perfect solution is a bad idea and only makes Linux look bad.
If Microsoft didn’t make an operating system that was simple enough for users who just want things to work, yet powerful enough for those who want to do more with it (such as making games, or using CAD software for engineering) then someone else would. I definitely get frustrated with Windows, but at the end of the day, it is what most of the world uses for a reason (just like Linux is used for most web servers around the world for a reason) - its the right tool for their job, whatever that job might be. Sure, the vague error codes that you get from Windows is frustrating at times, but Windows isn’t open source and that is not likely to change. How is the old XP error code format of STOP CODE0X003ABF VIOLATION OCCURRED AT KERNEL.DLL (along with the rest of the useless stack trace) going to help you anymore than the shorter ones that are generally found on Windows nowadays? You can’t exactly go submit a pull request to fix the issue. In terms of the ability to search for the error, I’ve very rarely ever seen a Windows error code that didn’t have a million and one causes (and ^2 the amount of potential “solutions” for the supposed cause). It’s certainly not going someone whose just trying to do their homework for school, or edit their resume for job applications.
The same thing applies to the whole iOS vs Android debate. The same coworker who sold Linux to my other coworker uses an iPhone (actually, they both do as far as I’m aware), because its been reliable for him. He doesn’t need to have the source code to iOS in order for it to do what he needs it to do. Quite frankly, the whole “sheeple” thing that you tend to hear people say, and this “Windows users are zombies” take being portrayed in this comment is incredibly childish. If you’re not sharing the computer, the phone, etc and someone else owns it - why does it matter what they use?
I suppose you could argue that the majority of people these days don’t want to troubleshoot anything, but can you really blame them? Imagine yourself before anything that you learnt about Linux, Windows, and computers in general - with the way things are built (think laptops and phones, with how their components tend to be soldered in) doing anything yourself to repair stuff is very difficult, and has a high chance of leaving you with a brick (which isn’t a Microsoft invention). How many people have you seen try to fix a software related issue on their PC or phone, and ended up making the issue worse (which can be done just as easily, if not easier, on Linux)? Those stories are why a lot of people do not want to try to fix something and reach out to support, take it in for repair, replace it, etc.
I’m mostly only replying to one part of your message, the reason everyone uses it is not that it’s more simple. For 99% of people the only thing they need is the web browser and maybe possibly office depending on what they do for work. At which point the experience between Windows and Linux is like 99% the same
Windows also constantly has issues and headaches as you alluded to with your error codes. People are just used to how to Google and try and sit there and deal with it for a couple hours.
Windows is the default, because it’s the default. Because it’s what your computer comes with, because it’s what everyone grew up using. It’s just tyranny of the default and nothing more. I got tired of dealing with Windows issues for my family as the resident Tech person so I gave them an ultimatum they can either let me give them Linux or they can find someone else to call when something goes wrong. Some of them took me up on my Linux offer, and I have happily not had to touch their computers in I think about 6 years now. They quietly do updates on their own on a schedule send me a push notification if it fails for some reason which so far none of them have and those people only ever used to the web browser and office anyway and for their needs LibreOffice was perfectly functional they don’t do anything fancy they don’t do a ton of macros they just type basic text with maybe some bullet point formatting
Chromebooks/ChromeOS have been very helpful in that regard. Grandparents that don’t do anything beyond a web browser? I replaced the struggling windows partition with a CloudReady install. Zero complaints. Google account syncing also takes care of backups, so no worries on that either.
Now I am worried about Chromiun’s near monopoly and how Firefox barely manages to make a dent in browser surveys, but I am not going to preach about web browsers and listen to their complaints every time a website coded by an unpaid intern refuses to do something properly on this ‘Mozarella Foxfire’ thing. I can afford to do that in my own time. They shouldn’t have to.
I mostly agree with you, but Google seems to be doing it’s classic Google thing, and Chrome is being enshittified now. Still, Chromebooks showed how little most people really need a computer.
Currently, the computer I use most is… my Steam Deck. With desktop mode, it’s 95% of the full Linux experience, and I bet if I got my parents set up with a docked Steam Deck, they’d be fine. Granted, that’s not the point of the Steam Deck, but it does show how the Chromebook example could be generalized.
Heck, even on my laptop and desktop, I’ve been stuck on Ubuntu LTS releases for about ten years, simply because I can’t be bothered to distro-hop anymore, and it’s solid. I guess ironically, I’ve ended up sticking with Linux because it’s less bother than even Windows. Honestly, my wife’s laptop on Windows gives the most headaches in the household now.
That’s fair, but at the same time as you mentioned most people use Windows because their computer comes with it. Now, while generally just browsing the internet and doing office work is simple even on Linux - what happens when they do run into a problem (say my coworker, who ran into graphical glitches with Fedora when not using safe graphics mode)? How likely are they going to have someone around them who uses Linux to help them troubleshoot the issue? When they try to work on a document that they’ve gotten from work, or school, then submit it only to find out that Libreoffice mangled the formatting causing it to render completely incorrect to everyone else whose using Windows at their workplace/school. How many of those folks are going to have an IT team at said place whose able to help them correct the issue?
You and I would be around to help with that (if its possible - using Libreoffice again as an example, there are some cases where MS Office just does not agree with the way LO saves documents), but given that Linux users are many order of magnitudes less than Windows users - this is just not likely to be the case for the average population.
I get that this is definitely a “Chicken & Egg” problem of course, but the reality is that this is the current situation, and short of Microsoft royally pissing off not only users but PC manufactures, this isn’t likely to change…
You do realize that Microsoft office deliberately messes up formating in documents. Libreoffice follows the file format standards but also implements fixes for issues with the bad file from Microsoft office.
I’m honestly surprised Microsoft hasn’t gotten in trouble for this
Right, yes - I’m fully aware that LO follows OOXML’s spec (the name “Office Open” being ironic), but that’s still missing the point of what I was saying. If you turn in a homework assignment that your teacher/professor can’t properly read because you saved it using LO and they’re using MSO, its not going to be accepted no matter how much you tell them that its Microsoft’s fault. Same thing if you try to submit a Powerpoint presentation to another department at work. Or if you try to submit a spreadsheet to some government department.
Honestly the only time I’ve really had that issue is if I’m trying to use an Excel or Word document with a lot of macros. For basic text which is what 99% of people need I’ve never had any issues opening or saving a word document with LibreOffice, and I regularly submit documents to government offices because I work for a county department in my area.
I wanna add that having a phone, or a laptop, a second reliable device, has made troubleshooting so much less scary. Something breaks entirely? I have another portal to the search engines.
Absolutely! I know the first time I installed Arch before the lovely days of archinstall I ended up doing a lot of reading of the wiki through my phone haha!
This feels like a bit of a sideways take. I’ll preface this with that I love Linux, and its been my preferred operating system for years.
That being said, “helplessness” isn’t Microsoft’s fault. Most people do not want to know the ins-and-outs of how something works, and that’s perfectly okay. I am a software developer, but despite the fact that I have an Android (Pixel) phone I generally do not care to root my phone, flash alternative ROMs, etc anymore. I use Linux on my PC, but I do not want to spend hours tinkering with my phone, only for it to most likely end up in a state that is less-than-par than what it came with. I am glad that Android is open enough (well, its not as cut-and-dry as that but its more open than iOS) for the people who do want to tinker around with it to be able to do so, but its not for me. If I’m out and trying to request an Uber, I don’t want my phone to crash every time I open the app just because the ROM I’m using has a bug.
By the same token, there are times where I don’t really want to mess around with going through a million settings on my PC when I just need it to allow me to do some work. That is a trade-off that you tend to make with Linux (though its certainly gotten a lot better over the years), and I can’t fault people for not wanting to go through that. Sometimes, I wish I hadn’t made that trade-off and had just stayed blind to the love/hate relationship I’ve come to form around Linux.
I do not want to tinker around with my keyboard, I just want it to allow me to type. I don’t want to tinker around with my headphones, I just want to listen to music. I use my refrigerator every day, and while I have some rudimentary understanding of how it works, I really rather not tinker around with it - and if it stops working, you’re not likely to find me trying to fix it myself (short of say, the light bulb going out).
A coworker of mine convinced another coworker to wipe their system and install Fedora, and use the Looking Glass + VFIO passthrough trick to have a Windows VM within Linux like he does. He spent both of his days off trying to get it to work (and facing weird issues that even I couldn’t explain and find a solution for), and at the end of today he decided to reinstall Windows so that tomorrow he can have something reliable to use for work. This is exactly why I usually don’t push people to use Linux. If they want to know more about it, sure I’m happy to show them the ropes - but selling it as a perfect solution is a bad idea and only makes Linux look bad.
If Microsoft didn’t make an operating system that was simple enough for users who just want things to work, yet powerful enough for those who want to do more with it (such as making games, or using CAD software for engineering) then someone else would. I definitely get frustrated with Windows, but at the end of the day, it is what most of the world uses for a reason (just like Linux is used for most web servers around the world for a reason) - its the right tool for their job, whatever that job might be. Sure, the vague error codes that you get from Windows is frustrating at times, but Windows isn’t open source and that is not likely to change. How is the old XP error code format of
STOP CODE 0X003ABF VIOLATION OCCURRED AT KERNEL.DLL(along with the rest of the useless stack trace) going to help you anymore than the shorter ones that are generally found on Windows nowadays? You can’t exactly go submit a pull request to fix the issue. In terms of the ability to search for the error, I’ve very rarely ever seen a Windows error code that didn’t have a million and one causes (and^2the amount of potential “solutions” for the supposed cause). It’s certainly not going someone whose just trying to do their homework for school, or edit their resume for job applications.The same thing applies to the whole iOS vs Android debate. The same coworker who sold Linux to my other coworker uses an iPhone (actually, they both do as far as I’m aware), because its been reliable for him. He doesn’t need to have the source code to iOS in order for it to do what he needs it to do. Quite frankly, the whole “sheeple” thing that you tend to hear people say, and this “Windows users are zombies” take being portrayed in this comment is incredibly childish. If you’re not sharing the computer, the phone, etc and someone else owns it - why does it matter what they use?
I suppose you could argue that the majority of people these days don’t want to troubleshoot anything, but can you really blame them? Imagine yourself before anything that you learnt about Linux, Windows, and computers in general - with the way things are built (think laptops and phones, with how their components tend to be soldered in) doing anything yourself to repair stuff is very difficult, and has a high chance of leaving you with a brick (which isn’t a Microsoft invention). How many people have you seen try to fix a software related issue on their PC or phone, and ended up making the issue worse (which can be done just as easily, if not easier, on Linux)? Those stories are why a lot of people do not want to try to fix something and reach out to support, take it in for repair, replace it, etc.
I’m mostly only replying to one part of your message, the reason everyone uses it is not that it’s more simple. For 99% of people the only thing they need is the web browser and maybe possibly office depending on what they do for work. At which point the experience between Windows and Linux is like 99% the same
Windows also constantly has issues and headaches as you alluded to with your error codes. People are just used to how to Google and try and sit there and deal with it for a couple hours.
Windows is the default, because it’s the default. Because it’s what your computer comes with, because it’s what everyone grew up using. It’s just tyranny of the default and nothing more. I got tired of dealing with Windows issues for my family as the resident Tech person so I gave them an ultimatum they can either let me give them Linux or they can find someone else to call when something goes wrong. Some of them took me up on my Linux offer, and I have happily not had to touch their computers in I think about 6 years now. They quietly do updates on their own on a schedule send me a push notification if it fails for some reason which so far none of them have and those people only ever used to the web browser and office anyway and for their needs LibreOffice was perfectly functional they don’t do anything fancy they don’t do a ton of macros they just type basic text with maybe some bullet point formatting
Chromebooks/ChromeOS have been very helpful in that regard. Grandparents that don’t do anything beyond a web browser? I replaced the struggling windows partition with a CloudReady install. Zero complaints. Google account syncing also takes care of backups, so no worries on that either.
Now I am worried about Chromiun’s near monopoly and how Firefox barely manages to make a dent in browser surveys, but I am not going to preach about web browsers and listen to their complaints every time a website coded by an unpaid intern refuses to do something properly on this ‘Mozarella Foxfire’ thing. I can afford to do that in my own time. They shouldn’t have to.
I mostly agree with you, but Google seems to be doing it’s classic Google thing, and Chrome is being enshittified now. Still, Chromebooks showed how little most people really need a computer.
Currently, the computer I use most is… my Steam Deck. With desktop mode, it’s 95% of the full Linux experience, and I bet if I got my parents set up with a docked Steam Deck, they’d be fine. Granted, that’s not the point of the Steam Deck, but it does show how the Chromebook example could be generalized.
Heck, even on my laptop and desktop, I’ve been stuck on Ubuntu LTS releases for about ten years, simply because I can’t be bothered to distro-hop anymore, and it’s solid. I guess ironically, I’ve ended up sticking with Linux because it’s less bother than even Windows. Honestly, my wife’s laptop on Windows gives the most headaches in the household now.
That’s fair, but at the same time as you mentioned most people use Windows because their computer comes with it. Now, while generally just browsing the internet and doing office work is simple even on Linux - what happens when they do run into a problem (say my coworker, who ran into graphical glitches with Fedora when not using safe graphics mode)? How likely are they going to have someone around them who uses Linux to help them troubleshoot the issue? When they try to work on a document that they’ve gotten from work, or school, then submit it only to find out that Libreoffice mangled the formatting causing it to render completely incorrect to everyone else whose using Windows at their workplace/school. How many of those folks are going to have an IT team at said place whose able to help them correct the issue?
You and I would be around to help with that (if its possible - using Libreoffice again as an example, there are some cases where MS Office just does not agree with the way LO saves documents), but given that Linux users are many order of magnitudes less than Windows users - this is just not likely to be the case for the average population.
I get that this is definitely a “Chicken & Egg” problem of course, but the reality is that this is the current situation, and short of Microsoft royally pissing off not only users but PC manufactures, this isn’t likely to change…
You do realize that Microsoft office deliberately messes up formating in documents. Libreoffice follows the file format standards but also implements fixes for issues with the bad file from Microsoft office.
I’m honestly surprised Microsoft hasn’t gotten in trouble for this
Right, yes - I’m fully aware that LO follows OOXML’s spec (the name “Office Open” being ironic), but that’s still missing the point of what I was saying. If you turn in a homework assignment that your teacher/professor can’t properly read because you saved it using LO and they’re using MSO, its not going to be accepted no matter how much you tell them that its Microsoft’s fault. Same thing if you try to submit a Powerpoint presentation to another department at work. Or if you try to submit a spreadsheet to some government department.
Honestly the only time I’ve really had that issue is if I’m trying to use an Excel or Word document with a lot of macros. For basic text which is what 99% of people need I’ve never had any issues opening or saving a word document with LibreOffice, and I regularly submit documents to government offices because I work for a county department in my area.
I wanna add that having a phone, or a laptop, a second reliable device, has made troubleshooting so much less scary. Something breaks entirely? I have another portal to the search engines.
Absolutely! I know the first time I installed Arch before the lovely days of
archinstallI ended up doing a lot of reading of the wiki through my phone haha!Please use periods…