I’m keenly aware. But, as you are likely aware, your utilization of said figure of speech implied a stratagem being was being employed and/or that it was a functional one. It did of course have the possibility of meaning “continue down the broken path” amongst others. My initial comment clearly implies this was my interpretation of it. Based on your reply - I had little reason to assume that your figure of speech, which carries a broad variety of meaning in this context, differed from said interpretation. In fact: you supported my interpretation with your follow-up comment which is exactly what led to my response.
Yes, that is my point.
Forgive me, I’m confused as to what your point was then. Your figures of speech seem to have muddled the water enough to make this conversation cyclical… so perhaps some clarification would help. Care to provide some insight on the two times you used it?
Forgive me, I’m confused as to what your point was then. Your figures of speech seem to have muddled the water enough to make this conversation cyclical… so perhaps some clarification would help. Care to provide some insight on the two times you used it?
Always glad to clarify when it’s asked for.
I agree that we should have a more multi-party system. Period. Good idea - lets do it. But we don’t have one.
So how do you effect change? Pitch a fit and claim the system is unfair and scream into the void? Or find a way within the existing system to change it? The latter is what I mean by “playing the game”.
Hard-line racists conservatives have been similarly disillusioned as liberals about the two party system, both feeling unrepresented. The conservatives worked within the system to elect Trump who is effectively a 3rd party candidate within a 2 party system by co-opting one of the parties. They “played the game” as it were and they’re changing the system now.
I agree that we should have a more multi-party system. Period. Good idea - lets do it. But we don’t have one.
Solid. I assumed we were on the same page - but was struggling to figure out where things were misaligning.
So how do you effect change? Pitch a fit and claim the system is unfair and scream into the void? Or find a way within the existing system to change it? The latter is what I mean by “playing the game”.
I feel, personally, that it needs to be a bit of both. If people don’t speak up it’s difficult for others to find they may not be so alone in their views. Discontent needs to be visible and heard to start a movement. Sadly (as shown in the video referenced - and in recent elections) simply “playing the game” has resulted in this death spiral we appear to be in. What is to be done? Disproportionately congress is still occupied by boomers who refuse to pass the torch and tragically are out of touch with reality. Gen X and Millennials make up very few seats thanks to the death grip held on many of these seats. They’re old so you need to speak up ;) Jokes aside - to gain any traction on subjects such as these we need to be vocal.
Hard-line racists conservatives have been similarly disillusioned as liberals about the two party system, both feeling unrepresented. The conservatives worked within the system to elect Trump who is effectively a 3rd party candidate within a 2 party system by co-opting one of the parties.
I disagree somewhat here. I believe both parties put a fairly significant effort into their particular candidate.
I firmly believe that Biden had 0 interest in running again but was talked into it. As I suggested earlier the majority of votes were lost to the candidate change at the 11th hour. Additionally the vote of the disillusioned groups you are (in part) referring to was due to swing to the Republican side this election, and did. Lastly, what I view as the final nail in the coffin was the efforts of “outside” influences resulting in the fragmentation and alienation of a number of social groups typically more aligned in their stance. Combine these factors and you get the overwhelming outcome we saw.
I will give you the “third party” dash of spice present on the grifter which clearly did draw some additional votes - but I’d attribute most of the vote disparity to the above.
I feel, personally, that it needs to be a bit of both. If people don’t speak up it’s difficult for others to find they may not be so alone in their views. Discontent needs to be visible and heard to start a movement. Sadly (as shown in the video referenced - and in recent elections) simply “playing the game” has resulted in this death spiral we appear to be in. What is to be done? Disproportionately congress is still occupied by boomers who refuse to pass the torch and tragically are out of touch with reality. Gen X and Millennials make up very few seats thanks to the death grip held on many of these seats. They’re old so you need to speak up ;) Jokes aside - to gain any traction on subjects such as these we need to be vocal.
Yeah - I hear that. I wouldn’t say “don’t speak up” so much as don’t just speak up. Speak up but also work the system as it is, Losing the vote to somebody like Trump is counter-productive, maintaining the status quo would have been better even if it’s still imperfect.
I disagree somewhat here. I believe both parties put a fairly significant effort into their particular candidate.
I’m thinking more of Trump’s first campaign which set this all in action. That’s when he was truly still an outsider.
Yeah - I hear that. I wouldn’t say “don’t speak up” so much as don’t just speak up. Speak up but also work the system as it is, Losing the vote to somebody like Trump is counter-productive, maintaining the status quo would have been better even if it’s still imperfect.
That’s a fair statement. I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that the current administration hadn’t won as a result of the failure of the voters on the other side so much as the aligning of a series of events. Too many people are simply making statements like well you didn’t vote hard enough… which simply ignores reality.
I’m thinking more of Trump’s first campaign which set this all in action. That’s when he was truly still an outsider.
I believe we are aligned I this thought. It’s their club and outsiders are a threat.
Other than that I think we mostly agree.
Cheers. This has been a fun exchange minus the earlier confusion. Appreciate you sticking it out to clarify 👊
I’m keenly aware. But, as you are likely aware, your utilization of said figure of speech implied a stratagem being was being employed and/or that it was a functional one. It did of course have the possibility of meaning “continue down the broken path” amongst others. My initial comment clearly implies this was my interpretation of it. Based on your reply - I had little reason to assume that your figure of speech, which carries a broad variety of meaning in this context, differed from said interpretation. In fact: you supported my interpretation with your follow-up comment which is exactly what led to my response.
Forgive me, I’m confused as to what your point was then. Your figures of speech seem to have muddled the water enough to make this conversation cyclical… so perhaps some clarification would help. Care to provide some insight on the two times you used it?
Always glad to clarify when it’s asked for.
I agree that we should have a more multi-party system. Period. Good idea - lets do it. But we don’t have one.
So how do you effect change? Pitch a fit and claim the system is unfair and scream into the void? Or find a way within the existing system to change it? The latter is what I mean by “playing the game”.
Hard-line
racistsconservatives have been similarly disillusioned as liberals about the two party system, both feeling unrepresented. The conservatives worked within the system to elect Trump who is effectively a 3rd party candidate within a 2 party system by co-opting one of the parties. They “played the game” as it were and they’re changing the system now.Solid. I assumed we were on the same page - but was struggling to figure out where things were misaligning.
I feel, personally, that it needs to be a bit of both. If people don’t speak up it’s difficult for others to find they may not be so alone in their views. Discontent needs to be visible and heard to start a movement. Sadly (as shown in the video referenced - and in recent elections) simply “playing the game” has resulted in this death spiral we appear to be in. What is to be done? Disproportionately congress is still occupied by boomers who refuse to pass the torch and tragically are out of touch with reality. Gen X and Millennials make up very few seats thanks to the death grip held on many of these seats. They’re old so you need to speak up ;) Jokes aside - to gain any traction on subjects such as these we need to be vocal.
I disagree somewhat here. I believe both parties put a fairly significant effort into their particular candidate.
I firmly believe that Biden had 0 interest in running again but was talked into it. As I suggested earlier the majority of votes were lost to the candidate change at the 11th hour. Additionally the vote of the disillusioned groups you are (in part) referring to was due to swing to the Republican side this election, and did. Lastly, what I view as the final nail in the coffin was the efforts of “outside” influences resulting in the fragmentation and alienation of a number of social groups typically more aligned in their stance. Combine these factors and you get the overwhelming outcome we saw.
I will give you the “third party” dash of spice present on the grifter which clearly did draw some additional votes - but I’d attribute most of the vote disparity to the above.
Yeah - I hear that. I wouldn’t say “don’t speak up” so much as don’t just speak up. Speak up but also work the system as it is, Losing the vote to somebody like Trump is counter-productive, maintaining the status quo would have been better even if it’s still imperfect.
I’m thinking more of Trump’s first campaign which set this all in action. That’s when he was truly still an outsider.
Other than that I think we mostly agree.
That’s a fair statement. I just wanted to draw attention to the fact that the current administration hadn’t won as a result of the failure of the voters on the other side so much as the aligning of a series of events. Too many people are simply making statements like well you didn’t vote hard enough… which simply ignores reality.
I believe we are aligned I this thought. It’s their club and outsiders are a threat.
Cheers. This has been a fun exchange minus the earlier confusion. Appreciate you sticking it out to clarify 👊
Same, have a good one!