This would be a good thing, though I think it’s trickier than it appears:
How arbitrary are “best before” and “expires on” labels and how do they differ from food to food?
How do the labels themselves differ from each other and how to do they differ from jurisdiction to jurisdiction?
Could acknowledging that “expired” food is still good cause expiry dates to just be extended? How far could they be extended before food actually is dangerous past the label?
How does liability work when someone gets sick from “expired” food? Does it change when it’s part of a structured donation system?
I mean, to the last bullet, we have good Samaritan laws. We could totally pass a law that says “grocery stores can and should provide reasonably safe, leftover food to poor people and will not be punished if those reasonable actions result in bad things happening”. You are allowed to just wail on an unconscious dudes chest for minutes until paramedics arrive and then not be sued for the three cracked ribs.
But cmon. We all know that grocery stores know that once people realize expired food is generally safe a) people will buy less food and b) people will show up to get free expired food and buy less food.
Scarcity is a necessity under capitalism. Movie theaters aren’t going to release blooper reels for free. They add them to the credits or put them in the editors cut release. A luxury clothing brand isn’t going to sell seconds, they will destroy or rework material that isn’t sellable.
Capitalism, which provides such an excess of food that we’re throwing it out, is the problem? True, when the shelves are bare and no-one has food this won’t be a problem anymore.
You are completly right. It’s not capitalism’s fault that companies would rather destroy essentials to save a few bucks rather than give it to those who need them. No, obviously the poor people just need to stop being poor. That’ll solve global hunger without cutting into the profits of those poor CEOs.
I work in retail. Stuff already goes to food banks. The dates on those products are usually the sell by date, and quite arbitrary. They’re mostly for quality sake, rather than “not safe to consume” sake. Like a loaf of bread may not be as moist and soft as it was when it was fresh, but it’s perfectly fine to eat. Companies want you to be able to buy a product and expect consistent quality. But if you’re hungry and in need, stale Oreos are better than no cookies at all.
A Kroger is not equipped to handle distribution of food to those in need. And I will 100% guarantee you that if they just leave the dumpsters unlocked, it will mostly be upper middle class college kids “dumpster diving” who grab the food… until one of them gets stabbed and the entire program is shut down forever.
I would like to see more effort to work with local charities and food banks to donate food but… a surprising number of supermarkets already do that. The issue is that there just aren’t enough food banks because NIMBYs kill them out of fear it will lead to “too many homeless people. and poors”. Which gets back to the issue of trying to get food to centralized locations which increase costs, cause issues with food that is fine if it is kept refrigerated, etc.
Like, for as massively fucked as it is to see an entire aisle of cereal get thrown into a bin and the latch locked, that is not “the problem”. The problem is that we as a society do everything we can to make life inhospitable for the less well off in the hopes that they die and go away.
Retrofitting so many buildings and hiring out the staff, and training them, is just not viable. Or even a good idea. You might as well want all of them to have helicopter pads and hotels attached.
Food banks exist. There should be more of them. But they are a very different kind of building than a supermarket and you need a VERY different kind of staff to be able to actually help those who need it rather than wander off because you are getting paid minimum wage and its your smoke break.
Rather than defeat the idea, why not try to think of ways it could work. Ideas need time to grow and flourish with revisions. Nothing is made perfectly the first time. What changes to the idea would you make in good faith?
Just because an idea won’t happen doesn’t mean we can’t explore the ‘what if’ :)
There isn’t much to retrofit. It could be like adding another pharmacy department counter.
There is no way this “could work” because it is a fundamentally bad idea.
A food bank is not just a cart full of loaves of bread. It involves people who know how to engage with various government programs and how to tell people how to engage with it. And, the good ones, involve people who know how to help the people who need to use said food bank.
Like I said above: the issue is not the food. It is the counties. It is getting people to allow a food bank to even exist in their county. And you can 100% bet that if it is such a struggle to allow one to be opened that they will not be cool with The Poors “shopping” in the same supermarket they do.
The issue is that you are approaching this from a REALLY shitty direction. Because the vast majority of the people losing their god damned minds over supermarkets dumping excess food? it isn’t the needy. It is college kids who decided they want to dumpster dive because that will let them save money on food to spend on weed. Because yes, supermarkets waste a LOT of food. But if you actually look into this at all from a “helping the needy” perspective, the issue isn’t the amount of food wasted (which generally isn’t actually THAT much because supermarkets would rather sell food than dump it) and more the distribution to the needy and actually having a food bank/shelter/soup kitchen in a given county/area. And distribution to the needy is almost universally stopped by NIMBYs
Staff from the store itself. I see no barrier for a large business with m/billions in profit to add additional staff to run the food bank area.
To add a capitalist view: the food bank brings in people who might buy more. Yes, they are there to get food for survival, but the money saved might be spent on other goods like clothes or supplies in the store. (Stuff they need but wouldn’t be able to buy for food budget reasons).
So you’re not suggesting some sort of legal requirement? You want a company to voluntarily add labor cost, storage costs, any liability, equipment costs, etc on the chance people coming in for food assistance might buy stuff that not all grocery stores even carry?
Companies aren’t going to do that voluntarily, that’s not a realistic expectation. The ROI on your suggestion doesn’t make sense, the only way something like that gets staffed is if you convince states to pass some sort of requirement that companies do this…
You may want to take your own advice, coming up with unrealistic solutions to every realistic problem posed to you isnt helpful either.
Loss leaders is a sales strategy that does not require additional overhead like permanent staffing, storage, and additional liability. Suggesting that they are makes it seem like you don’t understand sales, Operations, or logistics. I’m really trying to grasp how you think your “solutions” are helpful. Would you be comfortable providing insight into what industry you have the most experience in so that I can try to see it through the lens your looking at the problem through? (i.e. finance, customer service, procurement, etc).
Social work. I work in social work. I added loss leaders as a comment to provide context that stores make financial decisions that are a loss for the specific reason of getting more people to the store so they buy more. A food bank might be a loss that leads to more sales.
Ok. I got my “free food”, but maybe I want some ketchup for my potatoes too? I don’t mean to imply a foodbank will bring in net profits, but it can lessen the cost of running the bank.
Is a food store having a charity branch unrealistic?
A note: stores throw out unexpired goods all the time.
As for food safety, yup, that’s important. Some goods could be too risky, like raw meat. But so so many goods are processed and stay good long past the expiry.
Expiry does take into account oxygen. Once you open a bag, air gets in and then it could get stale, mold, etc. If it has been sealed in its package the whole time, there was never any (*a lot of) air to start those food-ruining things.
This would be a good thing, though I think it’s trickier than it appears:
I mean, to the last bullet, we have good Samaritan laws. We could totally pass a law that says “grocery stores can and should provide reasonably safe, leftover food to poor people and will not be punished if those reasonable actions result in bad things happening”. You are allowed to just wail on an unconscious dudes chest for minutes until paramedics arrive and then not be sued for the three cracked ribs.
But cmon. We all know that grocery stores know that once people realize expired food is generally safe a) people will buy less food and b) people will show up to get free expired food and buy less food.
Scarcity is a necessity under capitalism. Movie theaters aren’t going to release blooper reels for free. They add them to the credits or put them in the editors cut release. A luxury clothing brand isn’t going to sell seconds, they will destroy or rework material that isn’t sellable.
Capitalism is cancer :(
Capitalism, which provides such an excess of food that we’re throwing it out, is the problem? True, when the shelves are bare and no-one has food this won’t be a problem anymore.
But it’s not exactly a step forward is it?
I don’t understand your meaning of your comment. Not having capitalism means bare shelves in the future? How?
You are completly right. It’s not capitalism’s fault that companies would rather destroy essentials to save a few bucks rather than give it to those who need them. No, obviously the poor people just need to stop being poor. That’ll solve global hunger without cutting into the profits of those poor CEOs.
I work in retail. Stuff already goes to food banks. The dates on those products are usually the sell by date, and quite arbitrary. They’re mostly for quality sake, rather than “not safe to consume” sake. Like a loaf of bread may not be as moist and soft as it was when it was fresh, but it’s perfectly fine to eat. Companies want you to be able to buy a product and expect consistent quality. But if you’re hungry and in need, stale Oreos are better than no cookies at all.
Agree 100%
Not that it is expected to be content with stale oreos, but yea. Some is better than none :)
Perfection of quality expectations ruins so many things way too fast.
It also ignores the big issue of distribution.
A Kroger is not equipped to handle distribution of food to those in need. And I will 100% guarantee you that if they just leave the dumpsters unlocked, it will mostly be upper middle class college kids “dumpster diving” who grab the food… until one of them gets stabbed and the entire program is shut down forever.
I would like to see more effort to work with local charities and food banks to donate food but… a surprising number of supermarkets already do that. The issue is that there just aren’t enough food banks because NIMBYs kill them out of fear it will lead to “too many homeless people. and poors”. Which gets back to the issue of trying to get food to centralized locations which increase costs, cause issues with food that is fine if it is kept refrigerated, etc.
Like, for as massively fucked as it is to see an entire aisle of cereal get thrown into a bin and the latch locked, that is not “the problem”. The problem is that we as a society do everything we can to make life inhospitable for the less well off in the hopes that they die and go away.
Yet! A Kroger isn not equipped to handle it yet. Work needs to be put into the idea, a plan will form, and then it can be executed.
I feel like too many people read idealistic future plans and assume it will be inmediate and therefore dismiss the idea entirely. Have hope :)
Retrofitting so many buildings and hiring out the staff, and training them, is just not viable. Or even a good idea. You might as well want all of them to have helicopter pads and hotels attached.
Food banks exist. There should be more of them. But they are a very different kind of building than a supermarket and you need a VERY different kind of staff to be able to actually help those who need it rather than wander off because you are getting paid minimum wage and its your smoke break.
That is a big leap to helicopter pads.
Rather than defeat the idea, why not try to think of ways it could work. Ideas need time to grow and flourish with revisions. Nothing is made perfectly the first time. What changes to the idea would you make in good faith?
Just because an idea won’t happen doesn’t mean we can’t explore the ‘what if’ :)
There isn’t much to retrofit. It could be like adding another pharmacy department counter.
There is no way this “could work” because it is a fundamentally bad idea.
A food bank is not just a cart full of loaves of bread. It involves people who know how to engage with various government programs and how to tell people how to engage with it. And, the good ones, involve people who know how to help the people who need to use said food bank.
Like I said above: the issue is not the food. It is the counties. It is getting people to allow a food bank to even exist in their county. And you can 100% bet that if it is such a struggle to allow one to be opened that they will not be cool with The Poors “shopping” in the same supermarket they do.
The issue is that you are approaching this from a REALLY shitty direction. Because the vast majority of the people losing their god damned minds over supermarkets dumping excess food? it isn’t the needy. It is college kids who decided they want to dumpster dive because that will let them save money on food to spend on weed. Because yes, supermarkets waste a LOT of food. But if you actually look into this at all from a “helping the needy” perspective, the issue isn’t the amount of food wasted (which generally isn’t actually THAT much because supermarkets would rather sell food than dump it) and more the distribution to the needy and actually having a food bank/shelter/soup kitchen in a given county/area. And distribution to the needy is almost universally stopped by NIMBYs
I hear your criticisms, but I also think you are not on the same page of understanding my idea as I am. It’s a shower thought anyways.
Also, distribution problem? The food is literally already there. Open something akin to the pharmacy counter area and a few staff could handle it.
Just for clarity, when you say staff you mean like government employees? Or charity workers?
Staff from the store itself. I see no barrier for a large business with m/billions in profit to add additional staff to run the food bank area.
To add a capitalist view: the food bank brings in people who might buy more. Yes, they are there to get food for survival, but the money saved might be spent on other goods like clothes or supplies in the store. (Stuff they need but wouldn’t be able to buy for food budget reasons).
So you’re not suggesting some sort of legal requirement? You want a company to voluntarily add labor cost, storage costs, any liability, equipment costs, etc on the chance people coming in for food assistance might buy stuff that not all grocery stores even carry?
Companies aren’t going to do that voluntarily, that’s not a realistic expectation. The ROI on your suggestion doesn’t make sense, the only way something like that gets staffed is if you convince states to pass some sort of requirement that companies do this…
This is an idea to flesh out. There are so many barriers. When you discover a problem, try to also find a solution instead of tossing it in the trash.
(Loss leaders are a thing too)
You may want to take your own advice, coming up with unrealistic solutions to every realistic problem posed to you isnt helpful either.
Loss leaders is a sales strategy that does not require additional overhead like permanent staffing, storage, and additional liability. Suggesting that they are makes it seem like you don’t understand sales, Operations, or logistics. I’m really trying to grasp how you think your “solutions” are helpful. Would you be comfortable providing insight into what industry you have the most experience in so that I can try to see it through the lens your looking at the problem through? (i.e. finance, customer service, procurement, etc).
Social work. I work in social work. I added loss leaders as a comment to provide context that stores make financial decisions that are a loss for the specific reason of getting more people to the store so they buy more. A food bank might be a loss that leads to more sales.
Ok. I got my “free food”, but maybe I want some ketchup for my potatoes too? I don’t mean to imply a foodbank will bring in net profits, but it can lessen the cost of running the bank.
Is a food store having a charity branch unrealistic?
A note: stores throw out unexpired goods all the time.
As for food safety, yup, that’s important. Some goods could be too risky, like raw meat. But so so many goods are processed and stay good long past the expiry.
Expiry does take into account oxygen. Once you open a bag, air gets in and then it could get stale, mold, etc. If it has been sealed in its package the whole time, there was never any (*a lot of) air to start those food-ruining things.