I created this account two days ago, but one of my posts ended up in the (metaphorical) hands of an AI powered search engine that has scraping capabilities. What do you guys think about this? How do you feel about your posts/content getting scraped off of the web and potentially being used by AI models and/or AI powered tools? Curious to hear your experiences and thoughts on this.
#Prompt Update
The prompt was something like, What do you know about the user llama@lemmy.dbzer0.com on Lemmy? What can you tell me about his interests?" Initially, it generated a lot of fabricated information, but it would still include one or two accurate details. When I ran the test again, the response was much more accurate compared to the first attempt. It seems that as my account became more established, it became easier for the crawlers to find relevant information.
It even talked about this very post on item 3 and on the second bullet point of the “Notable Posts” section.
For more information, check this comment.
Edit¹: This is Perplexity. Perplexity AI employs data scraping techniques to gather information from various online sources, which it then utilizes to feed its large language models (LLMs) for generating responses to user queries. The scraping process involves automated crawlers that index and extract content from websites, including articles, summaries, and other relevant data. It is an advanced conversational search engine that enhances the research experience by providing concise, sourced answers to user queries. It operates by leveraging AI language models, such as GPT-4, to analyze information from various sources on the web. (12/28/2024)
Edit²: One could argue that data scraping by services like Perplexity may raise privacy concerns because it collects and processes vast amounts of online information without explicit user consent, potentially including personal data, comments, or content that individuals may have posted without expecting it to be aggregated and/or analyzed by AI systems. One could also argue that this indiscriminate collection raise questions about data ownership, proper attribution, and the right to control how one’s digital footprint is used in training AI models. (12/28/2024)
Edit³: I added the second image to the post and its description. (12/29/2024).
It seems quite inevitable that AI web crawlers will catch all of us eventually, although that said, I don’t think perplexity knows that I’ve never interacted with szmer.info, nor said YES as a single comment.
the fediverse is largely public. so i would only put here public info. ergo, i dont give a shit what the public does with it.
I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be uneasy with how technology is shifting the meaning of what public is. It used to be walking the dog meant my neighbors could see me on the sidewalk while I was walking. Now there are ring cameras, etc. recording my every movement and we’ve seen that abused in lots of different ways.
The internet has always been a grand stage, though. We’re like 40 years into this reality at this point.
I think people who came-of-age during Facebook missed that memo, though. It was standard, even explicitly recommended to never use your real name or post identifying information on the internet. Facebook kinda beat that out of people under the guise of “only people you know can access your content, so it’s ok”. People were trained into complacency, but that doesn’t mean the nature of the beast had ever changed.
People maybe deluded themselves that posting on the internet was closer to walking their dog in their neighbourhood than it was to broadcasting live in front of international film crews, but they were (and always have been) dead wrong.
We’re like 40 years into this reality at this point.
We are not 40 years into everyone’s every action (online and, increasingly, even offline via location tracking and facial recognition cameras) being tracked, stored in a database, and analyzed by AI. That’s both brand new and way worse than even what the pre-Facebook “don’t use your real name online” crowd was ever warning about.
I mean, yes, back in the day it was understood that the stuff you actively write and post on Usenet or web forums might exist forever (the latter, assuming the site doesn’t get deleted or at least gets archived first), but (a) that’s still only stuff you actively chose to share, and (b) at least at the time, it was mostly assumed to be a person actively searching who would access it – that retrieving it would take a modicum of effort. And even that was correctly considered to be a great privacy risk, requiring vigilance to mitigate.
These days, having an entire industry dedicated to actively stalking every user for every passive signal and scrap of metadata they can possibly glean, while moreover the users themselves are much more “normie”/uneducated about the threat, is materially even worse by a wide margin.
Our choices regarding security and privacy are always compromises. The uneasy reality is that new tools can change the level of risk attached to our past choices. People may have been OK with others seeing their photos but aren’t comfortable now that AI deep fakes are possible. But with more and more of our lives being conducted in this space, do even knowledgable people feel forced to engage regardless?
People think there are only two categories, private and public, but there are now actually three: private, public, and panopticon.
But what if a shitposting AI posts all the best takes before we can get to them.
Is the world ready for High Frequency Shitposting?
Is the world ready for High Frequency Shitposting?
The lemmy world? Not at all. Instances have no automated security mechanisms. The mod system consisting mostly of self important ***'s would break down like straw. Users cannot hold back, but would write complaints in exponential numbers, or give up using lemmy within days…
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I couldn’t agree more!
Do you own your own words?
I run my own instance and have a long list of user agents I flat out block, and that includes all known AI scraper bots.
That only prevents them from scraping from my instance, though, and they can easily scrape my content from any other instance I’ve interacted with.
Basically I just accept it as one of the many, many things that sucks about the internet in 2024, yell “Serenity Now!” at the sky, and carry on with my day.
I do wish, though, that other instances would block these LLM scraping bots but I’m not going to avoid any that don’t.
you might be interested to know that UA blocking is not enough: https://feddit.bg/post/13575
the main thing is in the comments
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I understand that Perplexity employs various language models to handle queries and that the responses generated may not directly come from the training data used by these models; since a significant portion of the output comes from what it scraped from the web. However, a significant concern for some individuals is the potential for their posts to be scraped and also used to train AI models, hence my post.
I’m not anti AI, and, I see your point that transformers often dissociate the content from its creator. However, one could argue this doesn’t fully mitigate the concern. Even if the model can’t link the content back to the original author, it’s still using their data without explicit consent. The fact that LLMs might hallucinate or fail to attribute quotes accurately doesn’t resolve the potential plagiarism issue; instead, it highlights another problematic aspect of these models imo.
If there was only some way to make any attempts at building an accurate profile of one’s online presence via data scraping completely useless by masking one’s own presence within the vast quantity of online data of someone else, let’s say for example, a famous public figure.
But who would do such a thing?
Can’t wait for someone to ask an LLM “Hey tell me what Margot Robbie’s interests are” only for it to respond “Margot Robbie is a known supporter of free software, and a fierce proponent of beheading CEOs”.
OMG, the real Margot Robbie
As I live and breathe, it’s the famous Margot Robbie herself!
I’m pretty much fine with AIs scraping my data. What they can see is public knowledge and was already being scraped by search engines.
I object to:
- sites like Reddit whose entire existence is due to user content, deciding they can police and monetize my content. They have no right
- sharing of data, which includes more personal and identifiable data
- whatever the AI summarizes me as being treated as fact, such as by a company hr, regardless of context, accuracy, hallucinations
public knowledge about individuals when condensed and analyzed in depth in huge databases can patternize your entire existance and you’re suspicable to being swayed a certain direction in for example elections. Creating further divide and into someone elses pockets.
Maybe but I can’t object too much if I put my content out in public. When forced to create an account I use minimal/false information and a unique generated email. I imagine those web sites can figure out how to aggregate my accounts (especially given the phone number requirement for 2FA) but there shouldn’t be enough public info for a scraper to
Gotta think larger than yourself though. What happens when your spouse uses real info? your kids? your parents? they’ll shadowplay your person with great accuracy and fill in the gaps. You don’t even have to “put content” out there. Said databases can just put two and two together. How will you, or other uses even know you’re actually talking to a human? perhaps you’re on Lemmy and we’re all bots trying to get you to admit fragments of your latest crimes in order to get you into jail for said crime? etcetera. At first glance this all looks harmless but any accumulated information in huge databases is a major infringement to personal integrety at best; and complete control of your freedom at worst. The ultimate power is when someone can make you do X or Y and you don’t even realize you’re doing their bidding; but believe you have a choice when you don’t. (Similiar to how it is in my living situation at home with my gf that is :P jk.)
Hakuna matata. Happy new year
I completely agree, except that I think of them as multiple related privacy issues. In the scope of ai bots scraping my public content, most of these are out of scope
What did you mean by “police” your content?
Not the person you are replying to but Reddit does not make the content you created available for everyone (blocking crawlers, removing the free API) but instead sells it to the highest bidder.
Right, that’s my objection. After benefitting from my content, they police it, as in restrict other sites from seeing it, until it’s monetized. It’s not Reddits to charge money for
Probably not the right word, but my content should still be my content. I offered it to Reddit but that doesn’t mean they have the right to charge others for it or restrict it to others for commercial reasons.
As with any public forum, by putting content on Lemmy you make it available to the world at large to do basically whatever they want with. I don’t like AI scrapers in general, but I can’t reasonably take issue with this.
I don’t like it, that’s why I like to throw in just a cup or two of absolute bullshit with just a pinch of cilantro. then top it off with a firm jiggle to get that last drop out from the tip.
I couldn’t even imagine speaking like this at first, but once you get used to it the firmness just slides right in and gives you a sense of fulfillment that you can’t find anywhere else but home.
When the cows come home to roost, you know it’s time to hang up your hat, take off your pants, and slide on the ice.
As an artist, I feel the majority of AI art is very anti-human. I really don’t like the idea that they could train AI off my art so it may replicate something like it. Why automate something so deeply human? We’re supposed to automate more mundane tasks so we can focus on art, not the other way around! I also never expected every tech company to suddenly participate in what feels like blatant copyright infringement, I always assumed at least art was safe in their hands.
Public conversations though? I dunno. I kinda already assume that anything I post is going to be data-mined, so it doesn’t feel very different than it was. There’s a lot of usefulness that can come from datamining the internet theoretically, but we exist under capitalism, so I imagine it’ll be for much more nefarious uses.
Everything on the fediverse is usually pseudonymous but public. That’s why it would be good for people to read up a little on differential privacy. Not necessarily too much theory, but the basics and the practical implications, like here or here.
Basically, the more messages you post on a single account, the more specific your whole profile is to you, even if you don’t post strictly identifying information. That’s why you can share one personal story, and have it not compromise your privacy too much by altering it a little. But if you keep posting general things about your life, it will eventually be so specific it can be nobody but you.
What you do with this is up to you. Make throwaway accounts, have multiple accounts, restrict the things you talk about. Or just be conscious that what you are posting is public. That’s my two cents.
you can also modify your information or outright lie. Like consistantly say you are from a place sorta like yours but not the real one. city in the next state over or whatever.
No matter how I feel about it, it’s one of those things I know I will never be able to do a fucking thing about, so all I can do is accept it as the new reality I live in.
I’ve been thinking for a while about how a text-oriented website would work if all the text in the database was rendered as SVG figures.
Not very friendly to the disabled?
Aside from that. Accessibility standards are hardly considered even now and I’d rather install a generated audio version option with some audio poisoning to mess with the AIs listening to it.
nothing I can do about it. But I can occasionally spew bullshit so that the AI has no idea what it’s doing as well. Fire hydrants were added to Minecraft in 1.16 to combat the fires in the updated nether dimension.
I think this is inevitable, which is why we (worldwide) need laws where if a model scrapes public data should become open itself as well.
Well your handle is the mascot for the open LLM space…
Seriously though, why care? What we say in public is public domain.
It reminds me of people on NexusMods getting in a fuss over “how” people use the mods they publicly upload, or open source projects imploding over permissive licenses they picked… Or Ao3 having a giant fuss over this very issue, and locking down what’s supposed to be a public archive.
I can hate entities like OpenAI all I want, but anything I put out there is fair game.
Oh, no. I don’t dislike it, but I also don’t have strong feelings about it. I’m just interested in hearing other people’s opinions; I believe that if something is public, then it is indeed public.
I don’t like it, as I don’t like this technology and I don’t like the people behind it. On my personal website I have banned all AI scrapers I can identify in robots.txt, but I don’t think they care much.
I can’t be bothered adding a copyright signature in social media, but as far as I’m concerned everything I ever publish is CC BY-NC. AI does not give credit and it is commercial, so that’s a problem. And I don’t think the fact that something is online gives everyone the automatic right to do whatever the fuck they want with it.
