I just want a OS, that just install and work for all the things I want to do, without installing other stuff, because I need it to play some game or whatever.
Sounds like nobara or bazzite to me
Or basically any distro and steam tbh
I made my move just recently. It was rocky, I ran into some issues and some of them were my fault.
I’m willing to put up with it currently not because Linux has gotten markedly better, but Windows has decided (yes, decided) to become significantly worse. Microsoft could have done nothing and I would have stayed a loyal, koolaid-drinking consumer of theirs.
I’m just starting out with Bazzite right now. Still awkward, but pretty painless, and all the gaming stuff like proton is already configured and baked in. I still need to figure out how to get stuff done though.
I am quite disappointed. Given the title, I was like, wow, a generalist PC gaming website recommending people to switch to Linux! Read the article, Linux is not mentioned at all, I don’t even know why it is in the title. Getting a few clicks from hippies?
Totally uncool man.
Like radically insidious man.
Not cowabunga at all.
Totally unbodacious
Totally not Not-Heinous
These all sound like 80s comments, not hippies.
Don’t be such a drag man. Enlightenment comes from acceptance.
I don’t think it’s making a serious suggestion. It’s using “learn Linux” as an ironic punchline, like “just move to Canada”. It’s a kind of backhand.
This guy has seemingly never written about Linux before. No other articles mention it that I can find, except one where he talks about Linux overtaking Apple in gaming, where he talks mostly about Apple.
Yeah, using it ironically makes sense, stinky ignorance!
Great perspective!
here we go again…
I just wanna be able to play Rocket League on Linux. Is that so much to ask?
I literally used this as an example to demonstrate gaming on Linux is easy now
Works perfectly out of the box, all you gotta do is install steam, download it and click play
You can through Proton still. It still is a Platinum game even though Epic fucked it up
So far I’ve only gotten a black screen when I try to launch it, so I have a bug to work out…
You install Steam, enable proton compatibility (on all games or on RL specifically), download and launch the game. Even more chance that it works on the first try with Arch linux-based distro, since the kernel version is closer to the ones running on the Steam Deck.
If you got the game from the Epic Games store, you download and install Heroic games launcher and proton. In the game settings, you specify the install path of proton and it should be good to go
I don’t see it available in Steam though, only Epic through Heroic launcher. I haven’t been able to get it to work though, just get a black screen.
Have you got your filters set to only Linux native games or something? Little penguin icon in the steam search bar
As a Linux user this and posts like this piss me off. Linux is NOT and WILL NEVER be a replacement for any other operating system (except maybe Minix). By implying Linux is the same or similar enough to Windows you bring in Windows users who except everything to be the same. Fundamentally thats not a good thing for anyone, Windows users get confused and maintainers are encouraged not to deviate from Windows even in ways that make the OS better (for example KDE not going all in on tiling to appease Windows users). In my option Linux shouldn’t be recommended to anyone. Linux software maintainers should focus on the core Linux userbase and people who want their OS to look and function exactly like Windows/MacOS should just use Windows or MacOS.
This is…kind of stupid? There’s such a plethora of options in the Linux space for desktop environments, workflow customizations, configurability, etc. nothing is locked down by taking a Windows-style approach to a DE. Instead it follows a tried philosophy that’s only really been hampered by Microsoft’s decision to funnel users into an frustrating hole that removes the choice to disable or modify features you don’t like. KDE in particular has always been a Windows-style DE, and it’s currently one of the best options for modern features and extensive customizability. Hyprland is literally designed for linux enthusiasts. Gnome is the Mac analog, Xfce is your light-weight but functional, etc.
You’re upset because people are looking for more options? That’s bizarre. I came from Windows, but I guarantee my setup is different than someone else who comes from Windows because that’s the flexibility that’s offered. No one coming from Windows wants it to be exactly like Windows, they just want to be able to use their computer in a way that allows them to work, to play games, to watch media, etc. It’s a computer. It’s your computer. It should be able to do what you want.
Thats absolutely untrue, I see people complain all the time “Linux doesn’t look exactly like Windows therefore its not polished” or “Linux doesnt support every Windows app therefore its not ready”. When Linux users keep saying “Linux is a Windows replacement” or even implying it by suggesting it as an alternative to Windows 11 it creates expectations that can never be met. In addition im frustrated not because Windows users demand more options but because they demand less options. They demand one distribution to be “the Linux OS”, one singular desktop, and one way of doing things. Fundamentally when Windows users come in expecting Windows they have a Windows mindset.
Ah, my bad. I think I misunderstood your point and took you to be gatekeeping rather than just attempting to defend against misinformation or poor comparisons.
You’re right, it’s not a Windows replacement. It shouldn’t be expected that it’s analogous to Windows. My previous statement was coming from the expectation that people moving from Windows to Linux as their primary OS of choice was that they were explicitly looking for the advantages offered by it, rather than simply expecting to get away from Microsoft while needing to adjust to nothing new.
Ideally new Linux users would accept that things are different and we are starting to see it. Tiling window managers are gaining popularity especially with the announcement of the first true tiling (or rather dynamic) desktop environment (Cosmic). I think it would also be helpful if Linux users explained why things are different, sometimes its a lack of support (HDR, VRR, VR, etc) but sometimes like with anticheat there are good reasons for the absence. In addition the problem is that a significant amount of people want a “non-microsoft windows”. The solution is simple, people should view Linux in a way like MacOS (some windows apps don’t run but it has plenty of exclusive apps that don’t run on Windows).
I just did my install of Linux Mint. I have a number of complaints that are really the fault of Microsoft, other things tripping me up that are just about me learning differences; BUT I still find there’s some things Linux could take as lessons.
One of them is keyboard shortcuts. I learned Windows shortcuts because they followed intuitive logic, like what role the “Tab” key has and what the Shift key is doing to adjust its action. Linux apps often make up their own logic around this, which even if it made sense internally, doesn’t work with apps like Firefox which are still using Ctrl+Tab to switch tabs, possibly to keep Windows parity. Then, since Linux is supposed to be built to customize, if I try changing the terminal to switch tabs using Ctrl+Tab…it just doesn’t let you; pretends you didn’t press anything. Stock boot of Linux Mint 22.
You’re right that they shouldn’t be changing just for aping the dominating competitor; that’s how we unfortunately got Chromium supremacy. I still think there’s gentle UX considerations they could handle more often though. Basically the type of thing decided in board rooms that engineers would lose interest in.
Only thing better than perfect is standard as they say, if everything uses the same shortcuts it doesn’t matter if they’re crap
I’ve kept most of the same logic from windows keybinds on my hyprland config because then when I have to use a windows machine it’s not completely backwards
To the Kwin maintainer, I can see why tiling isn’t a bigger deal. It’s not exactly about copying Windows; it’s more about not confusing most users. We already see tiling features, I’m sure they will figure out (1) more powerful features or (2) a way for other people to build off what they have. Let them cook.
I do agree that Linux will never be a Windows clone. There’s no purpose in copying decades worth of bad decisions. Windows isn’t great, it’s just always compatible with hardware.
How exactly is tiling confusing? If people were willing to accept that Linux functions differently then tiling can became just another thing to learn. Its objectivity more efficient then stacking so why not?
If the tiling is automatic and the users dont know how to change the size of the window manually (if that window manager allows that).
What if on the first boot the tiling could be explained by a welcome app (kinda like what KDE has), it would explain all of the shortcuts and then you could bring up all of the shortcuts with a simple shortcut. I personally use Sway and I think i3 based WMs are better, I believe on pretty much all i3 based WMs its as simple as super + r for resizing mode and esc to leave.
I have a lot of respect for Sway and wlroots developers. They contributed heavily to the desktop Linux ecosystem. However, if you need to explain that much at first boot; you may overload some users. I’m sure tiling in Plasma will get better as they splify configuration and figure out better defaults.
Well said. Then there is the entire ecosystem of programs and apps for which there is no real ability to install on Linux (and for which tools like Wine will either be buggy or even nonfunctional), and whose absence will just piss users off.
As much as I love Linux and BSD, it is really only for people who are either mentally geared to shift off of Windows or whose minimal needs won’t notice the difference; it is not a drop-in replacement for Windows.
For example, my octogenarian father has exactly such minimal needs except for one program: Quicken. Any bugs or issues running that as an installed desktop program on Linux would have him enraged and throwing the PC out the window. So he is still on Windows, and I am keeping my eyes open on how to properly neuter/excise Copilot once it drops.
For anyone who still needs Windows, I recommend you try the Windows 10 LTSC IoT variant.
It has support until 2032 and has all the bloatware ripped out. It’s extremely good.
They even have a Windows 11 version. That’s also really good. But I’m guessing if you’ve avoided upgrading to Windows 11, you’d prefer to stay on 10 anyway.
Is there an easy way to buy this as an individual?
Lmao
Windows doesn’t sell enterprise shit to normal people
This is why you gotta totally avoid sites like this one https://massgrave.dev/windows_ltsc_links
Microsoft is watching for you, don’t worry
They typically don’t sell licenses to individuals and even if you were able to buy one for a reseller, it would be like $500.
There are other ways of activating it, but they are a gray area, and I’d only be willing to describe them to you through DM
But will those methods even survive future updates?
The greater point is, the pattern is very clear with Microsoft and windows, and it will continue to get worse, and your options will continue to shrink. It would be better to just put any effort towards learning to use Linux and escaping the ecosystem rather than continually trying to find the ever-decreasing bits of freedom you can extract from Windows.
The activation mechanism I use on my personal PC has been active for six years without issue, so I can only assume so. And yeah, migrating to Linux works for some people, sure. But there’s no harm in letting new people know there’s options.
This isn’t reddit, you don’t need to worry about being brigaded or cancelled for talking about piracy or J-Walking
More so just trying to give the mods less to clean up if they have to. Plus I think links to it are a faux pas
Essentially, no. If you don’t care about the cost, maybe with a MSDN subscription.
Stop intimidating folks who just a computer that does work for them with “learn” linux as if linux is a programming language. Many linux distros are super user friendly and work exactly like windows UI.
Beside, why do you think iPhones, as dumb and as bloated and as restricted and limited and overpriced they are, still are the most selling phones worldwide year after year? It’s because my 80 yr old mom knows how to use it.
Most people and professionals in the world just want a machine to do their work and are not intrested in learning progamming or command lines to do it. Nurses, doctors and surgeons, non-computer engineers, artists, business managers, …etc, are too busy and occupied to even change the defaut settings or uninstall anything that comes with windows not because they love it but becuse not intrested and don’t care. Add to those groups most, actually all, girls I’ve ever met in my life. They have different hobbies and learning OSes is not of them. It’s like a girl saying “Soon Sephora will discontinue their HilightBrushExfoilioter and everyone who wants to wash their face needs to learn Mac’s DeepBeauty routines”. while dudes are like we know soaps but wtf is an exfoilating routine. Literally, they don’t know what linux is, and it’s not going to sell to tell them to learn.
So tl;dr: I’m saying the thing that sells would be Pop OS or Mint, or anything that requires the least or none learning curve.
While this is true, learning some kind of programming - shell scripting or BASIC in olden days - is a very useful endeavor.
It’s very convenient for everyone to be able to automate their work.
And it’s not particularly different from cooking something once in a while.
Not required at all to use Linux, of course.
Though for operating systems … People here for whatever reason downvote things they fear, but even OpenBSD is simple enough. It does require using shell, but as compared to any other desktop OS I touched that’s just really negligible and is usually a copy-paste from FAQ.
While this is true, learning some kind of programming - shell scripting or BASIC in olden days - is a very useful endeavor.
And learning sewing is useful, but I dont need it to wear clothes.
It’s not comparable to sewing. That would be learning C++ and Qt.
It’s comparable to making a sandwich.
No, making a sandwich is more effort equivalent to sending an email, or maybe adding items to a shopping site cart and buying them. Both are fairly intuitive and don’t involve memorizing weird commands like “ls” and “cd” (“cd? But my computer doesn’t even have a CD drive!”).
OK, making borsch is a more fitting analogy. With it being edible and not yielding muffled “heresy” cries from people from Eastern Europe.
Also you should be more creative with your sandwiches probably.
How is learning C++ and QT not programming?
Golly.
C++ and QT is programming comparable to hard things in life.
Shell scripting is programming comparable to usual things in life.
Capisce?
No, most people don’t need to learn shell scripting to browse the internet, play games, or send emails. Especially if they have jobs that don’t involve a lot of computer work. And it’s unfair to expect them to learn that just so they can use their computer as they were before.
Neither do I, but I do need shell scripting to automate tasks. I’m not against there being some visual user-friendly environment for doing that. That would be the right way to go, not saying people don’t need shell scripting. Something like Scratch.
Thanks for this unqualified headline.
Real talk.
I have been around long enough to know that this conversation has happened ever since Windows 7.
And each time and every time an OS EOL I spend time investigating a couple of Linux distros to try that switch.
This time is no different. From Redhat to Debian to Ubuntu to popOS to Mint. Each one is significantly better than the last.
But even 2024, I’m having to spend time inside the terminal to make the OS act more like Windows.
Tailscale has no native app. Gotta install it in the terminal. I want to use my touch screen in the browser to swipe the back button. Nope, I spent 2 hours on forums and ChatGPT and had to install something in the terminal. I was not successful. My Nvidia video card is not working properly. I gave up after.
Why am I spending hours trying to make my experience like Windows when Windows is right there. Sure sure, privacy and advertising yada yada. Install Adguard and disable services that you don’t agree with.
I deal with this issue every few years grappling with a new linux install. And then gaslighted into thinking it’s a non-issue when asking for help. “No big deal, just copy these long lines into the terminal to install this thing that would take a single click on Windows”. Like being obstinant is a virtue
So you’re saying you don’t spend hours on a new Windows install?
Or that things that take a moment on Linux may take half an hour on Windows, but God forbid it happens the other way around, unacceptable?
I mean, things that take a single click on Windows are apparently not all you do to make Windows usable, otherwise installing it and setting it up would take less time, right?
I’m having trouble seeing your point, would you kindly restate?
The point frankly was that I don’t see your point.
Unix-like systems have Unix shell as the most basic and universal interface.
If your point was that it’s a downside that it even exists, then you are basically saying that something you can’t use should be taken away from those who can. Not many allies.
I didn’t say it should be taken away, did I?
My first computer was all terminal, all the time. It was called the Commodore 64. After that, MS-DOS on an IBM PC (& compatible). I can do the typity-type. But most new adopters of tech aren’t using terminals or command lines… they’re using touch screens and voice commands.
Microsoft and Apple adapted, making their graphical user interfaces more robust, user-friendly, and compatible with modern workflows… and in turn, those workflows evolved syncretically. The terminal, or command-line, is still accessible, but it’s no longer the primary method for installing or accessing programs.
No Linux distribution that I know of has reached the same level of usability, and I think it’s because Linux is a platform built by nerds, specifically for nerds to use. I’m a massive nerd myself, but I can see how a lot of new users, who are used to being able to use their computer with just a mouse, would feel excluded and unable to invest the time to learn to adapt.
There’s no need for bad faith replies; there is nothing attacking nor scathing in my words.
Is my viewpoint unreasonable?
That’s not what I meant, I just took a leap from complaining about the usual advice in the Web involving CLI to the only way to prevent it - as in having some particular GUI as universal, if not more, as CLI, for advice involving it to work.
I mean, for example, in OpenBSD there are no distributions and X server is part of the base system, so they in theory could make a GUI configurator, but OpenBSD configuration is already much simpler than usual Linux, yes, with editing config files. It’s simpler than OpenWRT subjectively. That configurator likely wouldn’t be in demand.
In FreeBSD they still could have some GUI configurator maybe not completely official, due to there being no X11 in the base system, but still functional. Maybe that even exists.
But with Linux various distributions exist.
If you are talking about user-friendly GUIs fit to do various stuff in a particular distribution, OpenSUSE’s one is better than those proprietary things you mentioned. I think Mageia and Calculate Linux too had nice GUI configurations, and maybe OpenMandriva. Obviously Fedora has one, as the go-to “user-friendly” distribution, being from Red Hat and all.
No Linux distribution that I know of has reached the same level of usability, and I think it’s because Linux is a platform built by nerds, specifically for nerds to use.
So you have tried all in the list above and have this impression?
I hate GUI configurators due to my own personal issues with modern UI\UX. They make me anxious. But OpenSUSE’s one in particular even for me felt as good as it gets.
I have never spent hours on a Windows install. Full stop.
This is my routine. Install windows, sign in. Install tailscale. Change my trackpad settings. Done.
My Adguard takes care of the rest.
So you are an Edge user then, without any non-MS desktop software, I take it?
A lot of time we spend installing Unix-like systems is, well, picking unnecessary stuff, like themes, fonts, moving widgets on a taskbar, moving profiles for various software, like Firefox, qBittorrent, aMule … , setting up audio players.
If I could do that on Windows to any satisfactory result, I would.
If I don’t count that, installing the OS itself usually takes me like 15 minutes maybe. Not counting the time to write the image, or the time to free a partition, or something like that.
Yes, I use edge.
On Linux, you would get random things you have to fix. Oh, weird, the back button on my mouse doesn’t work in Firefox. Hm… Interesting, my Nvidia video card isn’t working correctly. Ummm, my laptop doesn’t go to sleep when I close it, but overheats it instead. Random shit like this.
No, I wouldn’t and I don’t.
Good thing you’re not me.
Because posts like these are fundamentally misleading, Linux isnt a Windows replacement nor is it meant to be (it also wouldn’t make sense since Linux is older then Windows, at least the NT kernel). Honesty if you’re trying to make Linux as similar to Windows as possible just use Windows.
If you still have time & energy to troubleshoot you can create posts for your issues. ChatGPT may give incorrect advice.
I switched because my OS drive was HDD and Win10 was slow & unstable. The background tasks of Win put heavy load on the PC because I didn’t have an SSD. Linux was also slow but a bit more bearable, plus it was stable. Did an SSD upgrade years later.
You can achieve the same thing by installing Tiny11.
Title acts as if once it’s stopped being supported, the fucker will vanish or be unusable at all.
Last month, for the first time, Windows 11 was a more popular OS than Windows 10 in the Steam Hardware Survey. Of course, this is an imprecise science as people have to opt in to having their machines measured but it’s a sign of wider adoption. Windows 8, on the other hand, never made it big enough to do the same in its lifespan. Windows 7 was a very popular OS and adoption even to Windows 10 was fairly slow initially, partially down to that skepticism.
You can’t cite the jump from 7 to 8 or 7 to 10 without also remarking on the fact users had far more.control over updates back then.
Yeah, Windows 11 adoption is up, because most people don’t have a choice, or they didn’t care enough to stop it happening automatically, and don’t know how to roll it back. That doesn’t translate to approval.
At a certain point, adoption rates just don’t matter anymore because increasingly the user doesn’t have a choice anymore.
Of course, this is an imprecise science as people have to opt in to having their machines measured but it’s a sign of wider adoption
They already account for that.
They don’t, that quote is talking about the steam survey, which allows steam to read what OS the user is using. The point OP is making is that the only reason W11 is more popular than W10 is because Microsoft is forcing the update
Right, and Valve accounts for people choosing to not take the survey. That’s just how polls are typically conducted.
You know valve isn’t Microsoft right? Those are two different companies with different agendas?
Steam asking for consent for a survey doesn’t make up for the lack of consent in updates pushed by an entirely different entity
Right, and I’m not talking about Microsoft here. That’s why I only quoted the part about Valve’s stats and pointed out that it’s not necessarily an issue that users can opt-out of that statistics collection.
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Pirate a copy of windows 11 N. It’s the eu version that doesn’t have any of this dogshit in it.
Is there a “government” version or similar, where security is paramount? Like, how does MS sell windows 11 to the navy or whatever…?
Probably, but the activation of it would be stringent.
The issue with any Windows OS going forward, no matter what version, is that Microsoft detests local desktop computing now, and so much of it is being ejected to the cloud. That includes all the various methods of managing it for enterprise customers. They’re slowly working towards the Apple model where the OS basically can’t live in isolation. If it touches the internet, it will phone home and kill itself if told to.
Are we talking about Windows or me at this point?
Apparently, the navy is still using Windows XP on (some?) ships: https://www.nationaldefensemagazine.org/articles/2024/2/5/navy-looks-to-industry-to-digitize-ships
Then there’s this old classic when a navy “smart” ship was adrift for 2 hours after a Windows NT crash: https://www.wired.com/1998/07/sunk-by-windows-nt/
For locked-down devices, they’ll be running LTSC or LTSB editions (Long-Term Support Channel/Branch), or Windows Embedded, which are simplified and heavily customisable versions of Windows. For general-purpose devices, they’ll be using Pro or Enterprise versions of Windows which, crucially, support Group Policy. Using GP it is very, very easy for a single admin to configure an arbitrarily large number of Windows machines to work exactly how they want them to work, including configuration options that aren’t otherwise exposed to the end user in any way.
Edit: just to add: the lack of an equivalent of Group Policy is what is preventing Linux becoming widespread in businesses. If you think you know of a service for Linux that works like Group Policy, then you don’t know Group Policy.
I got out just before 11 released and had only been on 10 for a year or so. Military moves very slowly at rolling out the latest windows. I’d be extremely surprised if anyone who isn’t a very high rank running 11.
there are people out there still (willingly) using windows xp, windows 10 is gonna live on for the time being
the problem is so many office workplaces use windows and google, so unless you want to bring your own computer and buy a wifi hotspot to take to work, you’re stuck on windows and google
My work all takes place in a Linux environment. Unfortunately, my workplace still mandates using Windows.
I don’t require any Windows software for work. My boss just insists that I must use a Windows laptop, then do all of my work either in WSL or a traditional VM setup.
It’s baffling.
Security.
They want everything to be managed by Windows because they’re managing Windows themselves from Azure or Intune or whatever.
Corporate IT around the country is basically being instructed that the best and only viable security policies are the ones Microsoft writes, which also just so happen to involve all of their products exclusively. Insurance companies are starting to demand compliance with Microsoft’s security recommendations. It’s going to keep getting worse, and even though there should be heavy regulation on this monopoly, there won’t be.
And Google? I’m sure some companies use Google Apps for Business or whatevere they are calling it now, but the vast majority use Microsoft 365. Which does basically tie you to Windows, annoyingly. Especially if they are following industry and Microsoft best practices with MDM and Conditional Access.
lol we use google suite for email, calendars etc. but MS for SSO. our sister institutions mostly use MS 365, teams etc, so we also have to have all the MS crap in addition to the google crap
