• frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml
    link
    fedilink
    arrow-up
    4
    arrow-down
    7
    ·
    6 months ago

    If you’re saying authoritarianism can be explained by non-whiteness…

    But also saying that anyone opposing NATO become ipso facto non-white because it’s “an ever-shifting construct”…

    Then the “construct” has no explanatory power.

    Why not just say ‘authoritarianism’ is opposition to the NATO bloc?

    You’re saying “authoritarianism = non-whiteness = opposition to the NATO bloc”

    Why not skip the middle step?

    • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      30
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      If you’re saying authoritarianism can be explained by non-whiteness…

      I’m not saying that. I’m saying that “whiteness” as a construct is a tool of capitalism/imperialism/colonialism. And that the Global North similarly tends to attribute “authoritarianism” to whichever states are acting insufficiently subservient to their imperialist interests at any given moment. And I’m saying that these two constructs have a tendency to be aligned with each other, because they’re both tools of capitalism/imperialism/colonialism.

      But also saying that anyone opposing NATO become ipso facto non-white because it’s “an ever-shifting construct”…

      Whiteness is as old as European colonialism, and has been baked into capitalism—which began in Europe—from the start. Whiteness has been twisted into all sorts of nonsensical logic pretzels. See for example honorary Aryans honorary whites. It has no explanatory power because it is simply a tool of power. Even the Irish, Italian, and other Catholic European immigrants have suffered it within our own country. As Josep Borrell has more-or-less said, the imperial core is the “garden”, and the rest of the world is the “jungle.” Imperialism uses race—which again is made-up bullshit—as a tool to justify their imperialism.

      You’re saying “authoritarianism = non-whiteness = opposition to the NATO bloc”

      I’m not saying that, but the NATO bloc often seems to imply it. international-community-1international-community-2

      • frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        9
        ·
        edit-2
        6 months ago

        And I’m saying that these two constructs have a tendency to be aligned with each other

        It’s not empiricaly right tho. Hitler and Stalin are the first type-examples. In the modern era it’s normally Putin and Xi who get the label.

        • davel [he/him]@lemmy.ml
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          26
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          edit-2
          6 months ago

          I already covered the origins of this propagandistic Western conceptualization of “authoritarianism”/“totalitarianism” in another comment in this post. But I’ll add a 1955 CIA report that was declassified in 2008.

          Even in Stalin’s time there was collective leadership. The Western idea of a dictator within the Communist setup is exaggerated. Misunderstandings on that subject are caused by lack of comprehension of the real nature and organization of the Communist power structure. Stalin, although holding wide powers, was merely the captain of a team and it seems obvious that Khrushchev will be the new captain.

          • dachshundwithadesktop [none/use name]@hexbear.net
            link
            fedilink
            English
            arrow-up
            11
            ·
            6 months ago

            I already covered the origins of this propagandistic Western conceptualization of “authoritarianism”/“totalitarianism” in another comment in this post

            This is off topic, but I want to mention for the sake of other hexbears that I’m glad you linked to this other comment you made. It’s a good comment but no one on hexbear can see it or anything else in that reply chain. Since you were replying to someone from an instance not federated with us, it’s just not visible. A reminder that the exact same thread can look completely different depending on what instance you’re reading it from.

          • angel@lemmy.ml
            link
            fedilink
            arrow-up
            14
            arrow-down
            1
            ·
            6 months ago

            Equivocating Stalin and Hitler is some crypto Nazi shit.

            It is standard in Westoid discourse, e.g. the Wikipedia page on “authoritarianism” probably does it idk didn’t read it.

            People who use words like “authoritarianism” equate the two.

        • GarbageShoot [he/him]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          6 months ago

          Only one of those four is white, and it’s a classic reactionary tactic to downplay him compared to the Georgian and the older Han Chinese example

        • ShimmeringKoi [comrade/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          16
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          edit-2
          6 months ago

          Joe Biden and the US military industrial complex are currently helping Isreal commit a genocide out in the open, and that’s your pick for 21st century Hitler? Tell me you don’t think Palestinans matter without using the words, jesus.

    • CindyTheSkull [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      20
      arrow-down
      1
      ·
      6 months ago

      Why not skip the middle step?

      Go ask the NATO bloc and their supporters. The obvious and surface answer is that it has to do with making for an easy “us-vs-them” identifier. “Of course they’re bad, they aren’t white like us good wholesome folk are, who are inherently good and wholesome because we’re white, and being good and wholesome makes us right and correct in what we do and you can tell because we’re white. The ones who are bad clearly aren’t like us. They’re not white!” Yes, it is circular reasoning and garbage logic. But I don’t know why you’re getting pissy at us for that instead of the dipshits white people who keep moving the goalposts on the meaning of whiteness, as they always have done to suit their agenda. Take it up with them.

      • frightful_hobgoblin@lemmy.ml
        link
        fedilink
        arrow-up
        3
        arrow-down
        7
        ·
        6 months ago

        Sorry I have no idea what you’re talking about.

        The thread was asking about authoritarianism. I was slagging the people who said it’s about being black, not about Hitler, Stalin, the USSR, Putin, etc.

        • CindyTheSkull [she/her, comrade/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          19
          arrow-down
          1
          ·
          6 months ago

          You were asking about the shifting nature of the meaning of the term whiteness. Go up and read your own comment to see how you related that to authoritarianism. If you can’t follow your own train of thought, then I can’t help you because it makes it apparent you’re not asking in good faith.

          You’re saying “authoritarianism = non-whiteness = opposition to the NATO bloc”

          What I’m trying to explain to you is that “we” are not saying that. The people who use whiteness to justify their actions and otherize their enemies are saying that. This isn’t difficult.

        • Nakoichi [they/them]@hexbear.net
          link
          fedilink
          English
          arrow-up
          17
          arrow-down
          2
          ·
          6 months ago

          I was slagging the people who said it’s about being black, not about Hitler, Stalin, the USSR, Putin, etc.

          This is holocaust denialism.

            • OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml
              link
              fedilink
              arrow-up
              18
              arrow-down
              1
              ·
              edit-2
              6 months ago

              Equating Hitler and Stalin or Nazi Germany and the USSR is holocaust trivialization, according to Jewish holocaust scholars. Dovid Katz did a popular article on it that you can probably search.