I’m fairly familiar with the Nordic countries and I think it’s important to have a market. Still, they’re known for “socialist” policies like universal healthcare, strong welfare benefits and Norway’s sovereign wealth fund. They also manage to have strong democracies (including proportional representation) without turning into dictatorships like people accuse communist/socialist countries of doing.
What I was getting at is would you agree the countries are doing well? If so, who cares about the label, why don’t we do some of that stuff?
You don’t think universal healthcare is socialist? Free higher education?
Again, I don’t care as much about the label, but when these things are suggested in America it’s socialist. When you point out anything good about the Nordics or just Europe generally the answer is they’re not socialist, and it’s not because of socialism. But we can’t do those things in America because it’s socialist.
In your opinion, are worker cooperatives operating in a market economy socialist?
That’s not really how it works. The fundamental question is: is the state capitalist, meaning a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, or is it socialist, meaning a dictatorship of the proletariat? While you can have a worker coop in a capitalist state, you’d still fundamentally be under the boot of the capitalist class that controls the state at the expense of the working class.
And do you consider any countries today socialist?
Microcosms of Socialism, sure, participating in a broader Capitalist system.
Yes, there are AES countries. No country on Earth is 100% purely Socialist, not even Cuba or Chiapas, but there are several countries where the economy is majority owned and operated by the working class and the Capitalists are held not only accountable, but submissive to the state.
That’s not true. America doesn’t have universal healthcare, or free higher education. Norway’s sovereign wealth fund owns 1.5% of the world’s listed countries, for the benefit of Norwegians.
Right, but Nordic countries aren’t exactly communist or socialist. There’s this if you’d like to understand it better.
I’m fairly familiar with the Nordic countries and I think it’s important to have a market. Still, they’re known for “socialist” policies like universal healthcare, strong welfare benefits and Norway’s sovereign wealth fund. They also manage to have strong democracies (including proportional representation) without turning into dictatorships like people accuse communist/socialist countries of doing.
What I was getting at is would you agree the countries are doing well? If so, who cares about the label, why don’t we do some of that stuff?
Those aren’t Socialism though, lol
You don’t think universal healthcare is socialist? Free higher education?
Again, I don’t care as much about the label, but when these things are suggested in America it’s socialist. When you point out anything good about the Nordics or just Europe generally the answer is they’re not socialist, and it’s not because of socialism. But we can’t do those things in America because it’s socialist.
No, they are not Socialist. They are wonderful social programs made easier in Socialism, of course, but they are not Socialist.
Socialism is a Mode of Production, not a government service.
Point taken.
In your opinion, are worker cooperatives operating in a market economy socialist?
And do you consider any countries today socialist?
Not OP, but I’ll take a stab at it.
That’s not really how it works. The fundamental question is: is the state capitalist, meaning a dictatorship of the bourgeoisie, or is it socialist, meaning a dictatorship of the proletariat? While you can have a worker coop in a capitalist state, you’d still fundamentally be under the boot of the capitalist class that controls the state at the expense of the working class.
https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Actually_Existing_Socialism
Microcosms of Socialism, sure, participating in a broader Capitalist system.
Yes, there are AES countries. No country on Earth is 100% purely Socialist, not even Cuba or Chiapas, but there are several countries where the economy is majority owned and operated by the working class and the Capitalists are held not only accountable, but submissive to the state.
What you just described is what America already has.
That’s not true. America doesn’t have universal healthcare, or free higher education. Norway’s sovereign wealth fund owns 1.5% of the world’s listed countries, for the benefit of Norwegians.