Switch to Linux and spend way more time making sure everything is updated and having to jump through hoops installing things.
That is not a problem on any of the major distros, so I’m not sure what you’ve been using. Most distros have a GUI package manager that is awesome and you can update with just a few clicks. So what hoops are you jumping through, and how is this such a problem that it’s costing you time?
KDE Neon for me. Previously Linux Mint. Both of their app stores are not great (on KDE Neon it only does flatpaks, and takes a full minute to launch), and my apt has had some kind of broken package/dependency for ages now. Also tried to install some app the other day through apt, cant remember what, but it wanted a different version of a package, but it wouldn’t let me install it cause other things depended on a different version. In the end I just gave up and installed the flatpak instead.
Also multiple times, on both Mint and Neon, an update has randomly broken my Nvidia driver, so I had to restore a Timeshift backup.
And Ubuntu/Ubuntu-based distros are supposed to be the easiest.
Know what I love about Linux? It allows you to do whatever you want, that includes breaking things. I like having that power… now if you can’t wield it, or are going to complain about it, then you should be under a more limited account and not be adventuring outside of it. My wife and grandparents have no problems on Linux, but I have them on limited accounts so that they can’t break things.
Also multiple times, on both Mint and Neon, an update has randomly broken my Nvidia driver, so I had to restore a Timeshift backup.
Yeah, bad updates happen, that’s to be expected when you support so many different hardware configurations. Windows is no different, they literally deleted user directories with an update in October of 2018, which in my opinion is the most egregious thing you can do to a user. And they have botched so many other things through updates over the years. With Linux, you can boot into a live environment, chroot in, and fix the problem. Easy compared to the alternative of Windows where you are likely re-installing all over. Or worse, and they deleted your family photos like in 2018, and they are gone forever if you didn’t have backups.
What do you mean “limited account”? Do you mean no sudo access? Because I literally wouldn’t be able to install anything except for flatpaks. Are you implying that the breakages are my fault? Cause if so, what did I do to cause them? I don’t personally think I’ve done anything crazy.
Also yes, windows breaks things sometimes as well. But my Linux install has broken over 5 times in the year and a half I’ve been using it. My windows install has broken… not once in the past 5 years. I have definitely had problems, but none so bad that I had to restore a backup or fix it with a live usb like I’ve had to with Linux.
I still like the freedom it gives me, that’s why I still use it. But I feel like recommending it to people who don’t know what they’re doing is a horrible idea.
Also yes, windows breaks things sometimes as well. But my Linux install has broken over 5 times in the year and a half I’ve been using it.
I have 1 desktop and 2 laptops running Arch… in the last year, none of them have broken. In the last 5 years a few have broken a total of 4 times, and were back up and running in < 15 minutes. I have 3 servers running Debian, none of them have ever broken in the 5+ years I’ve ran them. The wife’s laptop runs Mint, it has never broken in the last 5+ years she has ran it. So if your install has broken 5 times in one year, then to answer your question:
“Are you implying that the breakages are my fault?”
Yeah, most fucking definitely.
But I feel like recommending it to people who don’t know what they’re doing is a horrible idea.
That’s because you don’t know what you’re doing, and still do things on it without fully understanding what you’re doing, and break it. Like I said, my wife and grandparents, who have no technical ability whatsoever, don’t have problems. Why do you think that is? They don’t break it, not ever, not even one single time in the last 5+ years. And aside from Arch, which is a cutting edge, rolling release distro, I’ve never had a stable release distro break through updates, ever.
“Okay, I switched to Linux, now I’m getting this error message: _______.”
“Install ______.”
“It gives me this error now: ______.”
“You have to update the _____ library first.”
“It won’t let me.”
“You have to use sudo.”
“It tells me to clone the git via the command line, but git says verifying login from command line isn’t supported any more.”
“You’re following seven year old instructions.”
“They’re the only instructions I can find.”
“You should switch to this other flavor of Linux.”
A non-technical end-user once had a problem with Windows. A technical friend said “SWITCH TO LINUX”. Now they have thousands of problems.
I’ve been a non-stop user of Linux as my primary OS since before Ubuntu was a thing. I do not recommend Linux systems to my non-technical friends.
i gave ubuntu to my 67 yo grandmother and she used it until she died.
i call UBERBullshit on this
You gave Ubuntu to your grandmother and she fucking died?
OMG, Linux kills grandmothers!(I know, I quit Windows around 95, it’s just that I couldn’t resist)
My Aunt bought a new laptop to run her eBay/Facebook selling business on. She’s not particularly techy but has used Windows machines for admin work for prob 20 years or so. Laptop had no office apps installed and she tracks everything in a spreadsheet. Original plan was to install Libreoffice but it was running some budget version of Windows 10 you can’t install anything on, can’t remember what it’s called. So I installed Fedora. Chromium and Libreoffice Calc open on login, her ancient HP printer works, she’s able to access her camera as USB mass storage when she lists items and unattended upgrades are enabled. That was 2 years ago, no problems since.
Cool story, bro. And for every such cool story you can bring up I can bring you a hundred, probably, of people who got set up on Linux and returned to Windows because it was a horror show from their perspective.
Let me give you the clue: “The Year of the Linux Desktop” has been declared with monotonous regularity since the 1990s. It still hasn’t arrived. There’s a reason for this, and the quicker Linux (and other F/OSS) advocates grasp why this is, the quicker will the year actually arrive.
Until then, Linux is a fringe OS for techies. (And there it excels. As I said, I’ve been a non-stop user of it for ages.)
All you have to do is turn that off and you can install anything you want. You took a simple problem and made it hard.
I installed Linux to my tech illiterate parents. They are doing fine. No issues in years.
They probably stopped asking you for help and just used their phones.
I tried to install I think Ubuntu for my parents. I failed to find a way to properly allow short/simple passwords after like 2 hours of fiddling with configs. Gave up on it after that.
You shouldn’t be allowing that to be honest. You also shouldn’t be using Ubuntu especially for new users.
There are issues that simply cannot be resolved without switching away from Windows. For example inefficient drivers, old hardware, telemetry and privacy issues in general. I’ve several times seen how Linux can bring new life to old computers, make the PC cooler, and the fans spin less or not at all under low workloads.
The primary instances where wouldn’t recommend Linux is when the person is:
- Using DRM-heavy games that (on purpose) refuse to run on Wine/Proton.
- Using Windows-only proprietary software or drivers.
- Isn’t ready to learn a new system (e.g. an older or disabled person).
If these issues don’t exist, I think Linux can bring benefit to a Windows user. If they are not ready to do a complete switch, they can dual-boot and try it out.
Thing is, linux is not suitable for general crowd.
How do you play Diablo 4 on Linux again? 4K while we’re at it?
My parents have a hard time clicking a download button and double clicking to install.
There’s no way I can get them to apt-get anything from a command shell.
Windows sucks but no one seems to realize this because they’re too comfortable with how they fix, or work around, the broken stuff repetitively. The repetitiveness of the bad experience becomes “normal” so nothing is amiss. It being broken is “normal” so in their eyes it "just works"TM. It’s almost like a form of brain washing.
It really is akin to people in domestic abuse situations who are just so numb to it they aren’t motivated to get out.
Maybe we should be taking a book from domestic abuse counseling or something?
I’ve been using distros since Kubuntu 6.06. While I have dual boot, Ubuntu MATE is what I use everyday.
A little over a month ago I built a new PC on the AM5 socket platform (modern hardware). The ASUS motherboard has a built-in Wi-Fi adapter. Windows 10? It just works, it simply required installing a driver at most. Ubuntu 22.04? Even lspci doesn’t properly identify the adapter name. Now I have to hope that I can find a driver that I will have to compile and hope it to work.
Unfortunately, GNU/Linux distros still aren’t as convenient as Windows. Blame the hardware manufacturers in this case or whatever but, in any case, the final experience is not smooth.
In the last decade the only serious troubleshooting I’ve had to do is on non-Windows OSes. Including an install of Ubuntu that I blew away because it froze in the middle of an upgrade and couldn’t load into the OS anymore.
So, speaking from personal experience, Windows is what I use when I just want stuff to work. Other OSes are fun when I have time to kill trying to figure out how to do things.
The thing is, many of us know Windows better than our back yard, because it hasn’t changed much in the past 14 years (Win7). What we might call “basic troubleshooting” might be on the same level as a similar issue on Linux if you knew nothing
Unfortunately I’ve definitely been the raven at least once.
Most birds have trouble with windows. Especially when they are polished and super shiny
Unless Linux starts getting support from game developers, I’m not switching
Nearly all games work flawlessly on Linux now thanks to Steam and Proton.
I was amazed yesterday. I tried L4D(1) on native GNU/Linux Steam (Ubuntu) and it just worked after installing the game, zero tweaking. No need to set up Steam for Windows with WINE or anything.
You’re commenting on a Linux thread using Lemmy. How much closer can you get? Lol you belong here, take the plunge
As a complete casual Linux user (made the switch last year), all the games I previously played on Windows work on Linux smoothly with minimal or no intervention on my part. Even started fiddling with emulators - Legend of Zelda BotW on yuzu worked right out of the box
True, games are a big part of why people have stuck with Windows I think. The app store definitely isn’t much to go by
As someone who has had been around Linux-based people and whenever I have had a single gripe about Windows - it’s this.
I don’t have a hate boner with Linux, I just feel like Linux is a little too much for the average casual user. Everything is fine until they run into a single issue with Linux, if the bewilderment of not having their familiar easy to run programs that they had on Windows wasn’t a turn off for them from the get-go.
I would disagree with “average casual user” or maybe I think about them differently. For me average casual user now is completely fine with Linux distribution like Mint or Ubuntu or similar (or maybe chrome os). And with that they are little bit safer online as they are usual targets and victims of malicious software etc.
I think casual users are type of people completely happy with internet browser, media player, image viewer and just basic software … They are usually satisfied with regular Android phone Wich is enough for everything they do in computer space.
This type of users (like my mother and other members of family) are fine with major Linux distros. They don’t care about OS they use, it means nothing to them.
This is where I draw the line when suggesting Linux to people. If they don’t know and don’t care …Linux is usually fine. If they are aware of what type of os they use or even what version ( talking about Windows) I will suggest Linux only if they are open to it and I’m willing to help and recommend some software alternatives.
I remember I had a date with a girl back in the’10s. We hit it off and got back to her place. Wanted to show her a funny Internet video.
She brought out an ancient laptop that refused to boot and said her Ex had tried to fix it with Linux.
I got it pointed at the right dependencies, she fellated me as it updated.
I think this is my only sexy story that includes Linux.
Well, I guess there was this one time I loaned a lonely neighbor DOS 6 disks.
But, that does not include Linux.
My suspicion is it’s not just your sexy Linux story but the only sexy Linux story.
I mean we all know that recompiling the kernel is practically a replacement for sex
Never been to PenguiCon, I guess.
This is the best blowjob story I’ve read yet lol
Ok - any good tutorial zero to hero?
I love Linux, but it’s my job. When I go home I just want the simplicity of Windows. Thanks to tons of useless certifications it does exactly what I tell it to do.
When family wants a new OS install I don’t suggest Linux or even mention it’s existence. They get a version of Windows 10 with the bloat ripped out and the inability to upgrade to Windows 11. 90% of tech support calls have been stopped.
What friends I have attempted to convert usually go back to Windows due to Nvidia driver issues but as we move forward and gaming becomes less of a hurdle maybe we’ll see more converts. Especially if Windows keeps pushing their whole cloud OS thing.
I don’t do tech support but I can’t relate at all.
Windows is consistently the lowest quality software I interact with and Linux (Fedora) works out to be more reliable, simple, and often better featured.
Transition costs are massive though. Just like implementing any significant change in anyone’s life, it’s impossible for a technically illiterate person to change to linux.
I agree with you but you also aren’t doing them favors. Windows is not a secure or reliable platform.
But it is, it’s very reliable. So long as users don’t install anything, and there’s a quality paid antivirus solution and windows 11 gets blocked then very little will affect these installs.
As for security? Who cares. They’re checking email and using Facebook. They’re not running critical software, and as for reliability… Let me tell ya from an admin standpoint Linux is far from reliable, there’s a very good reason companies pay money for support.
So long as users don’t install anything
Yeah, no shit sherlock, if you don’t use YOUR computer, it’s never going to break.
Trick is to try live off live USB mode, learn from old textbooks, pen and notepads and a phone with less than 1gb data, to record stuff. Now we call it hard mode, but really it’s “just the norms” haha
You get really crap at typing keywords and Google image search and really good at looking through indexes and table of contents for the right chapter.
After I installed Linux on all my family laptops all OS problems was “surprisingly” desapeared.
“How do I connect to my printer?”
ngl, the “switch to linux” crowd is close to a vibe of complaining that “my car is making some weird sounds” and the response is to “buy a new car!” I mean, it would solve the problem of not having that issue with windows/your car, but it also means you have to intrusively replace your workflow and probably find some entirely new programs to do what you already could, and potentially have many new, less explicable problems, just to not have that one tiny problem that you could live around.
Often it’s worse. It like telling people to move to a different country because the roads are better there.
Ehh
More like someone saying
“Then change the station”
When someone complains
“I don’t like the ads on this radio station that I listen to in my car on the drive home”
There’s no financial loss by doing so, it’s relatively easy, just have to find out which frequency another broadcast you like is playing on
yeah not even close, linux is free.
depends how much you value your time. if you’ve nothing to do or just like fucking about with your os in your spare time then sure, linux is free. if you’re, say, a freelance graphic designer and actively losing money whilst trying to learn the foibles of a new os, and just fixing the bullshit that win & mac do by default; then it’s decidedly not
i think you only say that because you dont know how to use it, its actually easy when you know how to get around and saves you a lot of time compared to other OS :)
my dude, i haven’t booted into windows in ages. but that proves my exact point: it might save one time if ones workflow involves a lot of tasks that can be scripted. if ones workflow is “launch photoshop; browse the web for inspiration; draw for a bit; close photoshop.”, it won’t save any time. especially due to the hassle of getting photoshop working, or learning a new app like gimp or krita.
launch photoshop; browse the web for inspiration; draw for a bit; close photoshop
hAvE yOu tRiEd GiMp?
- average Linux fanboy. Thank you for not being one of those!
Oh man, that reminds me of the one time I promised a friend to make a poster for an event and my windows lappy died the next day. I had to shoehorn the project into gimp on my tiny netbook.
It was painful. I’m glad for knowing how to use gimp in a pinch, and it is quite powerful software, but it felt like every tool and setting was in the wrong place after working with PS for so long.
Also, it goes without saying that designing a full sized poster on a 10" screen is a fools errand.
Dude, if this is about the windows tablets, newsflash, they suck.
I’ve been trying to switch to Linux for 30 years now and am still trying to figure out permissions. Best of luck!
If you figured out how logging into any site works, you can figure out permissions. Claiming that after “trying to switch” for 30 years and still are unable to figure out permissions means either you are lying or not trying to switch. And mind you not wanting to use it or not trying to switch is fine, but making mountains out of mole hills is just disingenuous.
